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34. lhat is different to what you said just noxv. You say he stated he xvould see if it could not be done? —You are quibbling now on one word. It xvas xvith a view of arriving at a satisfactory ratio of expense, so that the officer being transferred xvould not suffer any inconvenience or loss. 35. Was it not rather for the purpose of preventing or trying to prevent officers making unreasonable claims? —No, sir, I do not think so. 36. Was it not xvith a view of reducing the amount claimed by the officers, xvho xvere making claims up to three weeks in almost every case for transfer expenses?—l cannot answer that question, because I xvas not in Mr. Hall-Jones's confidence. 37. I thought you said just noxv that you were? —I gave you his statement to myself at the meeting. • 38. He stated that at the meeting of the Officers' Institute?— Yes. 39. Can you say when that xvas?—No, I cannot say from memory. I think it xvas the only conference he held in Wellington. 40. Noxv, coming to this question of the cost of transfer, I think you told us that the officer gets 10s. a day for himself, and then he gets the actual expenses for the time fixed for his family : is that not so?—Up to the time provided in the regulations. 41. Well, if the expenses of the officer at the hotel he stays at are £1 ss. of £1 10s. a xveek for himself? —I xx'ould not like to stay at a £1 ss. or £1 10s. a week hotel, occupying the position Ido in the Railway service. I think your quotation is a little low to start with. 43. The officer who is drawing 10s. a day is benefiting to the extent of the difference between the hotel tariff and the amount paid him for transfer? —No, I do not see thai. 44. Well, if a man pays ss. a day? —1 am in the habit of paying Bs. 45. If a man pays ss. a day and gets 10s. he benefits to the extent of ss. a day?— No'; you cannot live in a hotel xvithout having other expenses going out. 46. None of us live in our private houses xvithout having extra expenses : charges for luxuries are not included?—l am not including luxuries. If you live in a hotel you must comply xvith the usual conditions of the hotel and give tips in order to get proper attention. 47. But do tips cost you ss. a day? —I xvould not like to travel on ss. a day. 48. And in addition to that you get out-of-pocket expenses for your wife and family : is that not so? —Yes. 49. You say the time alloxved is not sufficient. Can you quote any instances? —I have quoted them already. 50. Mr. Ross.] I xvould like it made clear to the Committee thai during those two days for xvhich you are paid prior to the transfer, and the week for which you are paid at the end of the journey, in all probability you will be on duty every day .' Yes. 51. And the Committee are not to understand that you are off duty?—No; as a rule, you are not. 52. Your experience has been that you tire on duty while the packing up is going on in your house?— You are doing your transfer balance-sheets and papers relating to the station. 53. And actually employed on duty almost up to the time the train starts that is going to convey you to your destination? —In many cases that is so. 54. And instead of having an opportunity of assisting your people to get into the house you are required to go on duty immediately you arrive at the other end? —That is so. 55. Mr. Arnold.] I understand, Mr. Graham, that when you are travelling the usual tariff at hotels is Bs. a day?— Yes. 56. The Chairman.] As to clause 16, in connection with the two days at the commencement of the journey, xvhat do you suggest that should be altered to?— Well, 1 think myself it xvould be a fair proposal to give them four. lam only going on my own experience. 57. Has the institute no suggestion to make regarding it? —The institute has not put forth any term: they only xvant the term extended. They are not forcing the Department into any line of action, but they suggest the time is not sufficient for tin- purpose, and ask for an extension. 58. As far as you are personally concerned, you suggest four days?— Not less than four days at the commencement. 59. And on arrival at the destination the present allowance is one week, and you suggest it should be one fortnight?—l suggest, not less than a fortnight. 60. The institute makes no suggestion in that connection either? —No. I do not xvish to hamper the Department in regard to any arrangement of their oxvn, but if that arrangement is made xve xvill accept it loyally. 61. Mr. Ramsay.] The Department does' not pay 10s. a day in addition to expenses: I understood the suggestion was that they paid you 10s. a day and any expenses?— They pay 10s. a day when on transfer. It is customary to claim 10s. a day, but still it is at the option of the General Manager, who may say that 10s. is not necessary, and they xvill pay you actual expenses. 62. The General Manager may say you are only to be alloxved your personal actual expenses? —Yes. Richard William McVii.i.y further examined. (No. 29.) 1. The Chairman.] Will you noxv state your case on behalf of the Department in regard to clause 16?— Well, sir, I will touch first in dealing xvith this question on the point just raised by