I.—lo.

V. G. DALZIELL.

38

the sum of £50,000. It is then under obligation to dispose of thai land within a term whatever the term fixed, say ten or fifteen years. It is quite plain, I suggest, that it cannol hope to dispose of thai land unless it spends a considerable sum of money in the development of portions of it, so that there is no question of this company making any profit out of the transaction— rather, there is no question that the company is "oitijj; to make a large profit, or any profit, out of this transaction without taking a very great risk indeed. It runs the risk, of course, thai it may lose all its capital invested in the rail way. It might not lie able to obtain purchasers for the land it acquires within the ten years' term, at tint expiration of which time the land would have to be disposed <>l even if i 1 fetched only a penny an acre, so that the company also stands the risk of losing that £. r )().(HHt and any money it puts into the development of the country. It has also been suggested that there is something in the nature of a monopoly intended t*> be created. It is said that we arc going to have a monopoly of the thermal sights, and that by virtue of that monopoly we may exclude people from these sights. That seems to be a little illogical, because this syndicate is a railway syndicate, and tin' more people il can attract to Taupo the better chance there is of its railway paying. Therefore it is interested and its sole interest lies, in getting as many people as possible to visit the thermal sights, so that it has every inducement to make them attractive. It is not as if it were a private syndicate going to take it over for private purposes and keep it from the public. The syndicate's very existence depends upon the public getting access to the country and its sights. More than that, the syndicate would have no power to exclude people from these sights. At Wairakei the hotel is a licensed house, and any one who goes there is entitled to accommodation. At the Spa, the hotel is held under Government lease which requires thai accommodation shall be given at fixed rates —for instance, 7s. 6(1. per daw and the highest price the lessee can charge is 12s. 6d. These are the rates fixed by the Government lease, and when that lease expires in forty years the Government, of course, gets control of the property. The Terraces are held under lease from the Crown on exactly the same terms. So there can be no question of tin' exclusion of the public from any of these properties. I think these are all the facts I desire to bring before the Committee. I would, however, like to say this : I hope, if the Committee is favourable to the proposal. that it will not propose specific conditions which the parties might not be able to fulfil. As 1 said, we do not want to get what we are asking for except upon conditions which the Committee will think reason able, and all I would suggest is that in proposing conditions the Committee should not make them Specific, but as far as possible make them general, so that there will not be any obstacle in the way of a fair arrangement. It was suggested that I might be asked some further questions after all the other witnesses were examined, and I have to say that I shall be very glad to give any further information if the Committee requires it. 1. Mr. Fraser.] Do I understand that if your proposal is given effect to you would be under no obligation to acquire any particular area, or any area at all, of this land from the Natives that you wish to be absolutely free in that respect —No. I have not looked at it in that light before. We do not hope to get the line through unless we get this area of 250,000 acres. The suggestion is that the capita! would be available to us if we can get that area. We cannot be bound to get a certain quantity, because the Natives have to agree to sell it. Our desire is to get what these people are asking. 2. That is not exactly an answer to my question. Do you suggest that you should be allowed to complete the line to Taupo and carry out your project as far as the Thermal District is concerned, without being in any way bound to acquire and thereafter improve any of the Native or Crown lands which you may acquire—that you will not be bound to take up the land ? That did not occur to mi' at all before. When oik , is negotiating with capital it is a little difficult to commit oneself to a definite statement. What we are trying to do is to find some means to extend our railway to Taupo and use it profitably. You know, of course, the difficulty there always is when negotiating with capital. You have to satisfy people. The point has not occurred to me that you might want us. or to force us, to take up a certain quantity of land. Of course, you have always to remember that we have to buy il from the Natives at whatever they will sell it at. If we are forced to buy it they might Bay their price was £1 or £2 an acre, and I do not sec how we can get over that difficulty. 3. The Committee may be inclined to support the proposal with the view of facilitating the settlement of a large area of absolutely unproductive land just now i Yes. I. The Committee might not lx> inclined to the proposal if (he company wanted merelj to extend the line in order to make the Thermal District at Taupo more accessible. How is the Committee to be protected ?—ln regard to that I say this : that we have to take an Order in Council upon terms fixed by the Government experts as to rates. These rates, no doubt, will be reasonable rates reasonable, I mean, from the point of view of the public. They must not be rates that will not pay, otherwise the railway will not be built. They must be fair to the promoters and fair to the public. Now. if the Taupo country gets the benefit of the railway on these terms, then it gets an enormous benelit : the whole of these lands then become available for settlement. What we are asking is to be allowed to take up this land. We are asking for a concession of something that will be of benefit to us ; but if you make conditions and place any difficulties in our way with the Natives, they will say. " You must buy this land, and we want so-much." My own opinion is that the scheme will not go through unless we can purchase the land at something like what we are asking. So far as the negotiations have gone. thai is the condition on which that capital will be available, and only on that condition will it be available. 5. Yes, 1 can see your difficulty in that respect 1 saw it before : that is why 1 was rather Surprised that, before approaching the Government or the Committee at all. those who propose to give effect to this scheme have not made some arrangement by which, if a scheme were entered into and the railway were made, they would be certain to get a given area of land. Options, you know, are constantly being entered into '( —We could not get an option over this country without an Order in Council.