1.—13 a.

34

\T. H. LABY.

33. May not the same thing, only in a modified degree, be said of the Medical School here? —I do no think the same considerations apply to the post-graduate student and the beginner in medicine, 'Ihe first goes under a great investigator, the second expects and requires merely good teaching. 34. Can candidates from Dunedin get clinical instruction as good as in Melbourne or Sydney? —I cannot tell as to that, but a Director of a New Zealand hospital told me that the larger hospitals here are not made use of. 35. Do you know whether there has been any complaint that a New Zealand medical student, when he has gone to England to complete or partially complete his course, has been badly trained? —No, I do not know that. 36. Is it not a fact that men who have not been able to pass in New Zealand have gone to England to pass?—lt is commonly said to be the case. I have no personal knowledge of it. 37. Would it be fair to say that, because of the greater advantages in the way of hospitals and clinical teaching, a good many students go to England rather for, that than on account of the value of the teaching, as far as it goes? —I would say it is probably due to the inadequacy of the clinical material here that the student goes abroad. But the clinical material could be obtained in hospitals in the other centres. 38. Are there not some practical difficulties in the way of utilizing the clinical material of hospitals in the other centres?—l suppose there are, but not insurmountable ones. 39. With regard to evening work, I understand your suggestion is to carry on both evening classes and day classes: would that not involve extra lecturers or professors?— Yes. 40. That would mean extra expense?— Yes. 41. You approve of the evening classes being carried on?-—Thoroughly. 42. Do you know whether the University Colleges are charging students varying amounts of fees for lectures?— Yes. 43. Can you give us any idea of how they vary?— You will see by a statement on page 56 of the pamphlet that the fees in the South Island amount to £9,000, paid by about 820 students. The fees in the North Island are £3,700, and the number of students is 870. You will see that the fees are more than twice as much in the South. It has to be remembered that the colleges in the South teach such expensive subjects as engineering and medicine. 44. But does the larger amount apply only to such subjects as engineering and medicine? — It applies to other subjects. 45. Do you think it is right that there should be a varying amount of fees charged, say, for the English lectures? —It seems to me that if the governing body of the college sees fit to charge different fees compared with another college I do not think there is anything, educationally, very unsound in it. The only authority that could complain about it seems to me to be the Government. 46. The Government would have a right to complain if—l am only using this as an illustration —you were collecting, say, in Victoria College one guinea and in Otago three guineas, and the Government were asked to make up the balance to Victoria College?— Yes, I think they would have a right to complain; but charging the extra fees is done with the cognizance of the Government. The college has proposed to raise the fees, but the Government desires that they should not be raised. 47. Mr. Hogben.] No, that is not so. It was allowed when it was proposed?— Well, the Government-nominated members of Victoria College Council have opposed the raising of the fees. 48. That is quite a different thing? —I believe that to be the case, but I may be incorrect in stating that. 49. Mr. Allen.] Do you think it is fair that when one college is charging a heavy fee and another a light one that the one that is charging the light fee should claim from the Government the difference? —I do not think we should have a dull uniformity among the colleges. It it certainly one of the problems of finance. I do not see any objection to the mere difference of fee. It will have its own remedy, because the students will go to the college charging the low fees. 50. The Chairman.] Is it fair to the other colleges that there should be competition?— No. I think both are the same in scJme subjects, but it is most improper in specialized teaching. 51. Mr. Allen.] Do you think it is a proper thing that there should be a difference in the same subject, and then that the college charging the small fees should complain for want of finance? —I find it difficult to answer that question, because if the fees were increased no doubt the number of students would fall and the total revenue might stand the same. You cannot assume that if you decrease the fees you increase the revenue. 52. Would not the students be more influenced by locality than the alteration in the fees?— No, I think the fee affects the students. I believe the science fees are more than the arts fees, and that is acting detrimentally on science. 53. That is internal. Does it not seem anomalous that the South Island should be raising £9,000 and the North Island £3,700? —I admit that, on the present basis. 54. How would you correct it? —That seems to be largely a question of policy. There are in many democratic States steps being taken to make education free. If the Government or Legislature were prepared to provide the extra money, I do not see any reason why the standard of fees of the South should not be lowered to that of the North Island ; but some revenue must be put in place of the fees. 55. But while we are depending as we are for assistance in university teaching, would it not be fairer for all the colleges to charge the same fee for the same work ?—Yes, that could be done. 56. Is it not dragging students from one college to another ?—Probably it is, but the difference would not pay students to do that in many cases. They have to consider the differences in the cost of living in another town. If a student is living in Christchurch he would never be attracted to Wellington on account of the lower fee. But the choice of a student not living in either Christchurch or Wellington might be affected by the question of fees.