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which your Worships would like me to deal with I will do so. 1 have tried to make the point as short and simple as I could. The Chairman: The idea that suggested itself to Mr. Kerr and myself is that this guarantee would have to be out of all rents. Mr. Bell: I suggest that it would be easier to work it in that way. The Chairman: And the union would recommend some particular person as a fit and proper person to take up that particular lease? Mr. Bell: As a fit and proper person to have that stock advance guaranteed. The Chairman: You are only talking about the stock advances? Mr. Bell: Yes. The Chairman: It has occurred to both Mr. Kerr and myself that probably they might object to the guarantee coining out of all the rents. Mr. Bell: I said it may be thought advisable to guarantee it only out of the rents accruing from the particular grant in which the land was, but it seems to me that it is fair to suggest that it should come out of all the rents. This is the unanimous desire on the part of the Maoris. The Chairman: How could they attach all the rents 1 The Pubhc Trust Agent would have to pay out to each party, would he not? Mr Bell: I suggest that the rents coining into the hands of the Public Trustee should be subject to a first charge of this guarantee up to 20 per cent. Of course, he only guarantees up to 20 per cent., and it would be found that there would not be one penny of loss. The Chairman: And it would be easier to finance then. Mr. Bell: Yes, and you would have the additional advantage of putting those men on the land who were the best and most suitable. ~ . , ■, t v-u The Chairman: And it would mean that the whole body of Maori owners represented by the union would give their guarantee that this would be done. Mr Bell- Yes. It seems to me it would be an enormous encouragement. Ihe guarantee would be only given to people who would be passed by the union and who were fit for the guarantee. If the union would not pass him he could not expect the guarantee, and would have to find it elsewhere. Now, if your Worships please, I just pass for the moment to the particular points in the Commission. I 'hope your Worships will not think I am endeavouring to dictate the report but I have already indicated that it does appear to me, in view of the inky darkness which seems to have been cast over the whole of this West Coast leases question from the beginning that it is necessary to foresee that there will be further efforts made by the lessees even though you sirs, report against their contentions; and I do ask that in view of your having come up here and looked into the matter and heard both sides argued, if it seems to you that it is obviously a wrong and an injustice that the lessees' application should be conceded to then I do suggest that you ought to, if I may say so, make your report so strong as to prevent the lessees application being acceded to. Now, as to the first of the points of inquiry m the Commission- 1. On what terms and conditions the said lessees or any of them should be permitted to surrender their preent leases and obtain new leases in lieu thereof under section 8 of the West Coast Settlement Reserves Act 1892 "— I do ask that your Worships will point out that we made a bargain, and that it is breaking that bargain to allow these lessees to convert at all, and I do ask that you will trace toe Story of how we have kept that bargain in the years between 1881 and now. I ask you to point out that even with these 18,399 acres there are only about 131 acres per Maori remaining. 1 also ask you to call attention to the first of the two memoranda of the Public Trustee, the one written before he was deceived, in which he takes the very same view which I have been putting to you Both memoranda are in December, 1909. I also ask you to point out that if the US' application is acceded to this movement for the advancement of the Maoris may possibly dYe Then as to the second question asked by the Commission whether any of the lessees have been misled by the Public Trustee, or by the form of the lease or the regulationsThe Chairman: Is not that a question as to the weight of evidence? Mr Bell: There is this point I wanted to bring before your Worships' notice-namely, that if you merely report that the lessees were not misled, and then some one subsequently turns to before the Lands Committee he will say, "Here is evidence taken before the Lands Committee which shows conclusively that they were misled." I think your Worships will find ?£X£2T- Vhaf lam pointing out. I presume we are going to do that. We shall go through the evidence to see whether in our opinion they were or were not misled. Mr Bell • I hope your Worships will not think I am presuming on my position but I am only trying to suggest points which it may not occur to you to put into the report and which.you 7 /forwards think it would have been advisable to put m. If your Worships agree with me S3 th we not m led, I suggest that the report should, go on to point out that even that the lessees weie n , matter for compensation out of the Natives' pockets, suppose he ta-e*hadb en mxsedit is not a m y[ of what DrFHchett has said ako ask you to say that even if the financing should prove to be imp still be a «d . £ S e i le h a r e Mt be rigr£tgh T tMs WingAhat, unless' the lessees' contLtfons >re met, and strongly met, an injustice will be done to the Natives much in the same way as injustices have not l m 'intention at this stage, after the , ""I o make anyattemptto summarize or to sum up the evidence led by myself and that KVvlv Men^ lior Z reasons, first, that the subject is much too large to attempt to sumled by my mena, ioi , secondly, I recognize that I am not addressing