T. J, SULLIVAN.]

7

H.— lB.

Francis Joseph Sullivan, Fish-merchant, &c, examined on oath. (No. 3.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ? —I am an importer and exporter. 2. Of fish ? —No. I have quite a number of occupations. I import a lot of merchandise, and f export rabbits and rabbit-skins. I suppose lam a commission agent. 3. You do not actually store the commodities ? —Yes. 4. You are a merchant ? —Yes. 5. Have you had a long experience of the business of selling fish and rabbits ? —Since 1889. 6. Have the commodities in which you deal increased in price in that time ? —I do not consider they have. 7. Mr. Fairbairn.] Are you speaking of the price to the public or to the trade ?—With regard to both. 8. You do not think the price has increased to the public in the last twenty years ? —That is so, so far as Dunedin is concerned. 9. Mr. Veitch.] What is your connection with the fish trade : are you dealing wholesale or retail ''. —I have been everything, but at the present time I am a trawl-owner. 10. You are really in the wholesale line ? —I have been in the retail line, and built Sweeting's two places here, thinking it was in the retail business that all the money was being made. I have had four years' experience of it and have given it up. 11. The Chairman.] You were glad to give up the retail business ? —Yes. 12. What was the business ?—Fish, poultry, &c. 13. Why was it unsatisfactory ? —One of the reasons was that when I started there was not all this legislation about labour, and I am too busy a man to be always hunted by Inspectors and officials and also members of the union. 14. Mr. Veitch.] With regard to the wholesale price of fish : has there been any marked difference in your experience ? —lt stands to reason there must be some variation from day to day. 15. Speaking generally, is there much difference now ? —No, Ido not think there is. I think it is cheaper now than formerly. 16. Mr. Macdonald.] Could you give us the price to-day and what fish was sold at ten years ago ? —I do not know that we have got those records. 17. Have you any records at all ? —We have recent records, and I have a book which goes back to 1875, before my time in the business. 18. Mr. Veitch.] Is there any competition in the supply of fish ?—There is any amount of competition. The ocean is entirely free to any one to catch fish from to sell. 19. Is the wholesale supply of fish in Dunedin controlled by one firm or combination, or by a number of owners competing against each other to sell their fish ?—There are quite a number of sellers. There are two wholesale salesmen here who sell fish. I have two trawlers, and there is another company which has one trawler. 20. Is there any working arrangement between you and the owners of the other trawler ? —None whatever. Each boat tries to get as many fish as possible, and get as much as possible for them. 21. Mr. Macdonald.] Is there any arrangement to limit the supply ? —Not so far as the trawlers are concerned. There is amongst the fishermen who have their own boats and nets. They have a union at Port Chalmers, and these men regulate between themselves what they send up to town. They limit the number of groper, barracouta, red-cod, blue-cod, and so on caught by each boat. 22. The Chairman.] Is this within your knowledge ? —Yes. 23. Mr. Macdonald.] There is a union of fishermen at Port Chalmers who artificially limit the market ?—Yes ; they arrange amongst themselves. 24. The Chairman.] The trawlers deliver the public from this evil ?—Nothing of the sort. The trawlers are steamers, and the fishermen have oil-launches. The man with a launch can catch as many or as few fish as he likes. These men formed themselves into a union, and they agree that each boat shall have a limit put on the quantity of fish he is allowed to catch, so as to equalize matters. One man may be allowed twenty dozen of one variety of fish and two dozen of another variety. 25. In the town I live in I have heard it stated that the shores were white with fish thrown overboard. Could you believe that ?—Not in New Zealand. 26. Mr. Fairbairn.] It was the practice many years ago to throw overboard small fish I —lf a fisherman caught small fish which he could not sell, what else could he do with them ? That is one of the greatest troubles of the fisherman. If the Government or the public will arrange to take fish at a price suitable to the catcher, well and good ; but the trouble is that when fish are most plentiful there is the smallest sale, and the biggest demand is when fish are most scarce. People do not eat as many fish in summer as in winter. 27. There is a bigger demand in winter ? —Far bigger ; and not only that, but we can reach buyers at places in winter that we could not reach in summer. Another thing is that in recent years I have applied oil-engines to these smaller boats, so that they are enabled to go to fishing-grounds that were, by reason of the distance, closed to them under the old methods of propulsion. Consequently the supply of fish is more even than it was. If the boats catch all the fish each can get they have to find a market for it. These men say, "We want a fair day's wage for a fair day's work." 28. What proportion of fish is caught by the trawlers as compared with that caught by the flotilla of small boats ?—That again depends on the seasons. Sometimes we catch great quantities by the trawlers, and at other times we do not get enough to pay expenses. 29. Which supplies the market generally ? —The boats catch a different class of fish from that which the trawlers catch. The boats use hook and line. The two classes of fish do not interfere with one another on the market. 30. The Chairman.] Do the motor-boats all catch by hook and line ?—Yes.