H.—lB.

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Ff. j. «unk.

14. What other coals are sold in Dunedin by the trade for household purposes ? —We have all the local coals, as well as all the West Coast coals and Newcastle. 15. Do you know anything about the brown coals ?—I was fourteen or fifteen years in business myself before joining the State Department. 16. Is it to your knowledge that the brown coals have increased in value very much of late ?•— There has been a rise of 2s. per ton in the last five years. lam speaking from the price-list issued in 1906 by the secretary of the association. It shows the retail price of Green Island Coal, dated the 2nd June, 1906, at 18s. a ton. 17. Is that for ton quantities ?—Halves and quarters are in the same proportion. The list issued in April, 1911, the present current price for Green Island coal was 20s. 18. Is Green Island the principal producer of brown coal ?—Yes. It comprises the output of three colleries. 19. Is Kaitangata a lignite ?—lt is a brown coal. It is superior to the Green Island. They are classed as native or brown coals. Kaitangata coal is at present selling at 295. a ton, and in 1906 it was 28s. 20. Mr. Fairburn.] What is the price of State coal ?—The best screened is 335. per ton, unscreened 30s. a ton, and nuts 275. a ton. 21. Your price is the same as Westport, evidently ? —No. Their price is 365. a ton now. It has gone up 3s. since the Ist May. It is only fair to say that the terms of the association are Is. per ton discount if accounts are paid by the 20th of the month following delivery. 22. Do you give that discount also ? —No, our prices are all net. 23. Mr. Macdonald.] I take it that all classes of coal have recently increased in price ? —Yes, since 1906. I may say, however, that in one period of my experience as a coal-merchant Westport coal was retailed at £2 per ton here. That would be about twelve years ago. 24. That was before the company had their own depots ? —Yes. 25. When did you raise your price ? —Sixteen months ago. 26. You have not raised your price since ?—No. 27. The cause that affected the Westport Company in May last has not affected you ? —The Department has not issued us any instructions in the meantime. No doubt the cost of production is steadily going up. 28. In connection with the State mine ? —ln connection with all colleries. 29. Is it your opinion that the rise in May was because of the cost of production being greater ?-— That is my own personal opinion. It is possible the reduction they made eighteen months previously may have had some bearing on their action lately. In other words, Ido not think they were justified in making the reduction at the time they did. 30. Mr. Veitch.] You mention an association which regulates prices. Who are the members of that association?—The local coal-merchants. 31. Are the Westport Coal Company in it ?—Yes. All coal-merchants about here are members of the association. 32. The State Department ?—No. 33. Who is the chairman of the association ? —The secretary is Mr. P. H. Power. It just deals with the interests of the coal-merchants as a whole. It is nothing of the nature of a ring or anything of that sort. It carries out a quite legitimate function. 34. If I told you that yesterday the manager of a coal company stated that there was no association for the purpose of fixing prices here would you say that that was not correct ?—I would not exactly like to say that, but I would say that he made a statement that is not borne out by the facts as I know them. The Westport Coal Company deals in other classes of coal than their own, and it is necessary for them to be a member of the association. I had a number of years' experience of the association prior to joining the State Coal Department, and in my experience there was nothing in the nature of a ring in the association. It is merely to get combined action on the part of all the dealers. Instead of having different prices they fix one price and every one adheres to that. 35. Mr. Fairbairn.] Instead of the prices being fixed by competition it is fixed by agreement ? — There is no chance of a ring being formed, because if the association unduly charged the public the companies would then start selling to the public. 36. We already have evidence to the effect that the Westport Coal Company by selling direct to the public were able to cut out the middleman and reduce the price 20 per cent. If your statement means anything it means that there is a combination to hold up prices to the public in the interests of the middlemen ? —Supposing that the association as a body made rates that were considerable increases on the rates that have been ruling for a number of years, then I would expect the collieryowners to at once step in. They have the matter in their own hands, and could refuse supplies or deal direct to the public. They prefer to sell wholesale rather than enter the retail trade. 37. Assuming that the local combination made this proposal to each of the companies that supply wholesale, how would the public be protected ? —Supposing that they agree amongst themselves to put 2s. a ton on the retail price of coal, and approach the wholesale men and say to them, " Now, if you allow this 2s. to go on the retail price we are willing to pay you Is. more on the wholesale price " : is there anything to prevent that being done ?■ —I do not think there is anything to prevent it being done. 38. That indicates that there is a danger or a possibility of a ring being formed ?—During the whole of my experience of the coal trade the association had been in operation, and nothing has occurred that would in any way damage the interests of the public. Of course, lam not an advocate for the association ; but as I was a member of it for a good many years, I think I should put the position fairly, and give you the benefit of any knowledge I had of its workings That was my experience of it.