J. E. MACMANUS.I

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45. The freight ou the skins is included in the cost of the freight of the rabbits ?—That is so. 46. What steps do you suggest should be taken to reduce the cost on the necessaries of life ?—I would suggest there should be an increment-tax to secure all socially created values to the State. I contend that if men can make eight and three-quarter millions in the form of rent per annum it is obvious it has to be added on to the cost of every commodity, and there must be some means taken to reduce that rent. The only way to reduce rent is to kill land-speculation, so as to prevent any one getting the unearned increment. The only way to do that is to put on an increment-tax and so secure the increment to the people. On the other hand, the State has already regulated the price of coal. I should suggest that the State should control production. Wherever there happens to be a monopoly State competition is necessary to regulate prices. Francis Keenan, Fisherman, examined on oath. (No. 7.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ?—Fisherman, residing at Port Chalmers. 2. Do you belong to any union, or society ? —Yes; I am a member of the Otago Fisherman's Society. 3. Is that the trawlers ? —No. It is registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act. We have oil-launches, and fish with the line. 4. About how many men are there in the union ? —Between forty and fifty at the present time. Practically all the men who go out fishing belong to the society. 5. You are owners of your own boats ?—Yes. 6. Co-operatively ? —Yes. 7. After you have caught your fish, to whom do you sell ?—We send them to the wholesale market in Dunedin, where they are sold. 8. To the general public ? —To the hawkers and retailers, and to the general public if they wish to go and buy. 9. You think the general public have a fair opportunity to buy ? There is no ringing of the changes ?—As far as I know they have. Of course, I have heard it said that if the hawkers see the public coming down they will chip in and run up the price. 10. Have you any knowledge of any combination or understanding between certain persons to keep the price of fish for the public very high ?—No. 11. You think that the fair price you receive is passed on as a fair price to the general public, with the addition, of course, of the expense of delivery ?—I believe that is the case. The price, of course, varies with the quantity on the market. 12. Do you know Mr. Sullivan ? —Yes. 13. Was there ever any agreement between yourself and Sullivan to deliver to him ? —No. 14. He h&s in no way had a hold over you ? —No. 15. Mr. Veitch.] Has he not had a bill of sale over some of the boats ?—Yes, but as far as I know he has treated the men very fairly. He has charged a percentage for the use of the money, but he dealt with the men very fairly, and has never, as far as I know, compelled a man to fish for him whilst he had a bill of sale. 16. He has not attempted to put any undue influence on the men to fish for him whilst under obligations to him ? —That is so. These men also apply to Mr. Gibbs, the other salesman. Both have dealt very fairly with the men. 17. Mr. Gibbs finances the men too ?—Yes, but not to the same extent as Mr. Sullivan. Mr. Sullivan is agent for oil-engines. 18. Is there any arrangement in the union to limit the quantity of fish sold ? —At the present time we have a limit on. No boat is supposed to send up more than three dozen of groper per day to the market. There are twenty-two or twenty-three boats fishing outside at the present time from Otago Harbour. We just control the boats fishing from this harbour. 19. What becomes of any groper caught over the number you can send up per vessel to town ? —If a fisherman catches six dozen to-day he cleans them and keeps them back till to-morrow. That is when the cold weather is on. To-morrow he would not catch groper, but would catch blue-cod or barracouta, or some other kind of fish. 20. If you did not control the supply of fish in that way would fish be sold cheaper in Dunedin ? —The reason this system was adopted was that if we sent up a whole boat-load of fish we would get practically nothing for it. The hawkers would not bid when they saw there was a glut on the market. It would suit the salesmen to have them sold cheap. They would sell to the hawkers all that they wanted that morning, and for the remainder give the fishermen any price that they liked. We have had as low as 3d. and 4d. for groper. The salesmen would take what the hawkers did not want and put them into the freezer and send them to Melbourne, where there was a good market, or keep them in the chambers until winter. 21. The auctioneers are not only selling for you, but they are buying at the same time ? —They auction the fish for us, and they are buyers as well. 22. That is rather a dangerous position, is it not ? —Yes. They take over the surplus. 23. Did you find that you could not make a living without limiting the sales ?—We found three years ago when we formed the society that we were as well off by catching three dozen per day as if we caught six or nine dozen. At the end of the week we had just the same money. 24. Mr. Macdonald.] Do you limit the number of men who can belong to your society ?—No. 25. There is no reason why another fifty should not join ?—No. 26. Mr. Veitch.] What is the entrance fee of the society?—2s. 6d. ; and any man who comes . along is admitted.

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