H.—lB.

60

[W. H. BOWATEB.

40. Can you give us any information with regard to freights to Lyttelton?—The freight formerly was 2s. 9d. per 100 ft.; that is some years ago. 41. What are they now? —3s. 3d. 42. In regard to the increased output of timber from the W T est Coast: has white-pine entered largely into that? —No; a better price is obtained for white-pine than for red-pine. 43. Is the increase due to the larger amount of white-pine?— Yes. 44. What proportion of this 60 million feet would be white-pine for butter-factories, approximately?— Probably 10 to 12 million feet. 45. The Chairman.] Is there any understanding between the shipping companies and certain mills to carry freights at a lower cost —no rebate? —None that I know of; no. I would just like to add, Mr. Chairman, that at the present time there is a very much finer article required to supply the market than was required twelve years ago. People were then taking very much rougher timber than they are using to-day. We notice that all through; indeed, that was the reason we had for putting up the dressing lines. 46. To what do you attribute that?—To a rise in the public taste. There is no doubt the present time is one of luxury and sport, to a large extent, compared with twelve or fifteen years ago. We notice it in the sash-and-door line. There used to be a much cheaper class of door on' the market than that used to-day. Nothing but figured rimu will do them indoors to-day, which is due to the improvement of the public taste. 47. So that you would say that the rise in wages, the growing distance from the market of the mills, and the more expensive taste of the present day are the causes of a rise in the price of living, if such rise exists? —Yes, I should think so, so far as that affects the trade. 48. Mr. Fairbairn.] There is one point I should like more definite information about re the 15 to 20 per cent, increase : what would that percentage mean in the increased cost of production? —The wages are about 60 per cent, of the total price; the total cost—-that would be 15 to 20 per cent, of 60 per cent. —that is, about 10 per cent, of the increased cost of timber is due to increase of wages. 49. Dr. Right.] You said that the West Coast Timber Company arranges prices sometimes? — Yes. 50. What do you mean precisely by " arranging prices "?—They state at what they will sell the timber for. 51. Can you give us any idea of the relative amount of the total output produced by this company? —Yes; roughly speaking, they are supplying about two-thirds of the export. 52. And then as to the increase in the rate of wages : you say the increase has been from 15 to 20 per cent, on the wages paid? —Yes. 53. Has there been any increase or any other result observable on the efficiencj' of the labour employed? Do'you get more result in a given time than before? —No, we get less. 54. That is to say, the average worker, you consider, receives wages 15 to 20 per cent, higher than the average worker of twelve years ago? —Yes. 55. And is responsible for a smaller output?-—lt is taking about sixteen men to do the work that twelve men did formerly. I do not say that is due to malingering —I would not say that. I am not here to say anything of that kind. 56. Are there any causes which may explain the reduced output per man? 57. The Chairman.] Perhaps they worked longer hours twelve years ago?—No, I think not. 58. Dr. Hight.] What about the machinery now used: does that differ?—The machinery is much better in effioiencv. The price of the timber would be much dearer to-day if there were not increased efficiency of plant. 59. Mr. Macdonald.] On the Coast all the areas are small; if you had bigger areas, as in America, could you put on improved machinery, and therefore reduce the cost?—Oh, yes, that is so. If we had been allowed to hold a much larger area than we have been holding we could have cut timber at much reduced rates. One of our mills has been in the same position for the last twelve years, and the bush is quite a network of tramways, laid at considerable cost to us, and they are now lying there idle. 60. The Chairman.] Might not the reduced output in comparison to the number of men employed be not so much from a reduction in the efficiency of the men as from these smaller areas and this network of tramways : might not some reduction be due to the difficulties of management instead of non-efficiency of the men? —I do not say it is due to the non-efficiency of the men; I simply said it took sixteen men for the same output that twelve did formerly. 61. But the inference would be drawn that it would be through that inefficiency?—No, not necessarily. 62. Dr. Hight.] Are the areas smaller than they used to be?—No, about the same. If we were allowed to hold 2,000 acres or 3,000 acres when we started to cut twelve years ago we would have put in an iron line with a locomotive, and that would have been working against horse traction, which is the dearest mode of traction. 63. What area would justify a modern up-to-date plant? —A modern up-to-date plant would require fifteen years' life, and it would be cutting probably 20,000 ft. per day, and cut out 3 acres per day, say. 64. Mr. Robertson.] In regard to white-pine : could you give us any idea of the increase in the price of that over the same period?— White-pine, in consequence of the Australian trade taking all they can get, has been largely responsible for the increase of price. 65. How much is the increase of price?— White-pine ten or twelve years ago was about the same price as the red-pine; to-day, on the whole, it is more money—it is worth more money than the red-pine. We get 9s. for butters, first-class; Bs. second class, other sizes Bs. and 7s. On the whole it is a better price than red-pine.