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runs of light engines to the light railways. There has always been pressure brought to bear, in order to limit the number of trains and to get full loads, to have all the lines available for the heavier class of engines. The result is that, after a lightly constructed line has been in use for a comparatively short time, xve have been forced to increase the strength of the line in order to carry the ordinary engines. The economies that could be made would be in the form of earthworks, ballasting, station equipment, fencing, and so on. There would be a moderate percentage of saving, but I cannot tell you the percentage. I xvould not advocate a lighter rail than from 50 lb. to 55 lb. over any line, but second-hand rails can be used for them, and have been. 5. Mr. Buchanan.] The objection as to the difficulty of interchange of rolling-stock would not arise in the case of a light line detached from the main lines, such as the Kaihu line, until the line xvas connected xvith Kaxvakaxva?—No. 6. You xvould not object to the light lines being detached from main lines although the rolling-stock xvould not meet the requirements of the standard line?—Not so long as there was no reasonable prospect of their being coupled up. 7. How, then, xvould you xvork a light line connected xvith the main line if the rolling-stock was not alloxved to run on the light line : you xvould have to take some of the load off, or in some other way arrange so that the rolling-stock xvould run with safety along the light line? —That is the difficulty; your freight must go through on the one bottom xvithout being disturbed, or else you bring in an excessive cost. 8. You could not give us a rough idea, on average country, of what the difference in cost would be between a light line and a standard line? —I would not like to do so offhand. 9. Mr. Buick.] What is your interpretation of " rolling-stock " —does it mean engines as xvell as other things ? —Yes. 10. Would it be any detriment to have a special engine for a light line? —Yes, your engine often needs to go partly on a main line and partly on a branch line, and your heavy engine is very often used on branch lines. You cannot do good service on your light line otherxvise. 11. There xvould be no harm in having a special engine for a special line if the xvork warranted it? —No, if the xvork xvarranted it; but the more types of engines used the more expensive it becomes. 12. Mr. MacDonald.] The district of Taupo contains a huge area of country different to that of any other part of New Zealand, and it needs a different system of transport to assist settlement. It has been stated on expert authority that they could not run a fully equipped line on the same system as the Government railways, therefore the question is, Could not a light line be run suitably even if it had not the same rolling-stock as the standard line? —I should think under those circumstances, if the country will stand it, it might be an economical thing to do. 1.3. Mr. Buchanan.] Looked at from a railxvay point of viexv, what is your experience of the increase in traffic, or otherwise, derived from pumice country of the class which this country is supposed to be? Has your railxvay experience been encouraging as to the traffic derived from pumice country? —Yes, my oxvn observations with regard to the line that is at present in use are that the pumice country —I include such country as Matamata, xvhich, I should judge, has been brought into very profitable occupation; and if this other country is similar I would assume that it has a very good prospect. 14. The Chairman.] Mr. Holmes speaks of making this line, or portions of it, for £8,000 a mile : we have had it in evidence that it xvas constructed for £2,500 a mile, and also that the settlers are being served already. Do you think it xvould be a reasonable proposition to carry the line on to Taupo, alter the existing line by straightening out the curves, and make it fit for running up to fifteen miles an hour xvith passengers, for £7,500? —I can hardly express an opinion on it without knoxving the country or the line. The estimate sounds exceedingly small, but my opinion upon it can be of no value without more knowledge of it than I have. 15. It is stated that for an expenditure of £7,500 the line could be made suitable to run at -an average speed—of course, slowing down at the curves —of twenty miles an hour? —I cannot give you any opinion on that without knowledge. 16. Mr. Dalziell.] Suppose you can construct that line of railway from Putaruru to Lake Taupo, which xvill reduce the cost of traction from £6 down to £2 a ton, xvould that not be an economical thing to do even if you had to limit your rolling-stock to this particular line? —It depends entirely upon the tonnage. 17. That is, assuming that the district is big enough to support that line? —Yes. W. D. S. MacDonald, M.P., sxvorn and examined. (No. 24.) 1. The Chairman.] Your occupation?—Sheep-farmer. I desire to speak as to the area of the country involved in this petition. There is a very large area of something over two million acres of land there, and there is no doubt at all that a very large quantity of it is very poor country, and it is questionable xvhether it can be made productix>-e for pastoral or agricultural purposes. There are very large areas, that can be made productive and be brought into profitable cultivation, in my opinion—that is, all the lands that are ploughable. I have been through the country on various occasions, and my own idea is that the difficulty at the present time is due to there being so many oxvnerships of land—private, Croxvn, and Native land ownership. To cut up the land into suitable areas for settlement purposes it xvould really be necessary for it to be under the same ownership. The country should be surveyed into suitable blocks for settlement, and the balance of the country reserved for tree-planting such as has been carried on lately by the Government. To my mind it does not matter xvhether you allow a man 2,000 acres; if only 500 acres can be made productive it would be just as well to reserve the balance. I have seen Strathmore, Broadlands, and Mr. Wood's property. These are all properties which have been m hand for a very long time, but very few improvements have been made. It is a reason-