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J. W. POYNTON.]

119. The Chairman.] Is it not a fact, Mr. Poynton, that Mr. McKay, late Government Geologist, has stated that it is- not a smelting-coal?—I could not say. We have had a report from private sources since that the coal was good enough for smelting, but that the quantity was not known; there would have to be bores made. 120. Hon. Mr. McKenzie.] Do you knoyv anything of the geological reports on the country between Puponga and Westport? —I understand that there are coal-seams further out —at West Wanganui—and according to the dip of that locality there would probably be some seams extending right through. 121. Is it not a fact that there are coal outcrops at West Wanganui, at the Heaphy, and at Karamea, and right away down ?—lt is nearly all coal country there. One report went to show the coal outcrop at West Wanganui was the same as at Collingwood. 122. Do you know anything about the coal outcrops at Mount Owen, near Murchison?—No. 123. Do you know whether, when the Ferntown mines were at work, some of the best cokingcoal was found there ? —I have spoken to the men who worked in the iron-deposits in other countries, and who thought the coal at Collingwood good smelting-coal. 124. I suppose you know there are large quantities there if required for making coke?— Yes. 125. Do you know if that coal, was used for hop-drying purposes?— No. 126. Mr. 67. M. Thomson.] Have you any idea of the cost of bringing the coal from the coast to the locality Mr. McKenzie has mentioned? —You would require a bridge across a large river, then you would have about eight miles of railway to construct. 127. From West Wanganui and the other places?— Probably it would have to be all shipped. 128. There would be no advantage for Westport?—Only by shipping.

Right Hon. Sir J. G. Ward, Bart., examined. (No. 3.) 1. The Chairman.] Would you prefer to give your evidence in reply to question, Sir Joseph? —I would prefer to do it by questions. The Chairman: What would you suggest, Mr. Witheford?' Mr. Witheford: I would suggest that Sir Joseph give evidence as to the standing of the syndicate, and the working in the matter, and their preparedness to deal with us in the interests of the Dominion, if the Dominion gives them a chance. Witness: Mr. Chairman, at the request of the Public Trustee, the representative of Sir Alfred Cadman's estate, this matter was discussed by me with the representative of a proposed iron-ore company in this country before I last went to England. There were two syndicates— one was known as the Onakaka and the other as the Parapara. The representative of the Onakaka Syndicate saw me before I went to London, and a representative of both those concerns saw me in London. I suggested to. both of the representatives when they saw me in London that there was no probability of the country giving assistance to two separate concerns, and if they wanted a proposal considered by the Government and Parliament that it was desirable for them to come together. Representatives of the Ethelburga Syndicate, Mr. Albert Pam and Mr. Voules, called on me with Mr. Witheford, and discussed the matter with me, and their proposal was put in writing. I understood it represented both Onakaka and Parapara; but the proposal is on record in the Department. The proposal was considered by Cabinet, and the outcome of that consideration was that a Bill was prepared and submitted by the Government to Parliament that session. The Ethelburga Syndicate asked for a forty-years lease and a rate of interest to be guaranteed on the capital invested, and undertook to spend, I think, from memory, about £650,000. It is set out in the proposal made by Mr. Pam, which is on record. As far as the standing of the Ethelburga Syndicate is concerned, I made an inquiry of a high financial gentleman in London, who was not in any way connected with them, and he told me that the Ethelburga Syndicate were an eminently respectable firm or company and financially they stood high, and that anything they undertook they could be depended upon as being able to carry out. After going into the proposal after my return to New Zealand the Government decided to submit a Bill to Parliament to carry out the general lines submitted by Mr. Pam, but with a fifteen-years limit and right of purchase by the Government at the end of that period, or, failing that, a renewal of a further term from time to time to the company. That Bill was not gone on with that session, as there was a good deal of opposition to it, and it was decided in consequence to let it stand over until after the general election. I hold the opinion that we should do all we can in reason to get ironworks established. Personally, I favour nationalization of the iron and steel industry, but I recognize the money required to be spent involves something approaching £650,000, and the country could not for years to come undertake it, and nationalization means putting its establishment off for a period of many years. The alternative, in my opinion, was to help a company to establish the industry. There is, of course, a great deal to do in the exploration and the experimentation, &c. I would give them a proper tenure and a sufficient subsidy to warrant their raising so large a sum of money, and protect the country by giving the right of purchase at a period of years. I believe now that is the wisest course to -adopt. I have not considered the Bill just handed to me, as I have not seen it before. The representatives of the Ethelburga Syndicate told me they had full confidence in Mr. Witheford. 2. Mr. Witheford.] Sir Joseph, about two years before you were last in London you met Mr. Albert Pam, Mr. Elbert W. Russell, and Sir Francis Voules. Would you say whether they were good people or not, as I have met some of the biggest financial groups in England and got them interested in New Zealand. Would you mind saying what you know about Mr. Drummond and Mr. Albert Pam?—Are these representatives of the same concern?

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