1.—16.

26

[t. M. milligan.

the manufacture of pig iron can be accomplished in New Zealand at £1 I6s. per ton. A matter you have to take into consideration is a filler putting seventy charges into a furnace per day for 6s. 6d. or 7s. Ironyvorkers are all paid on tonnage rates, and the more money an employer drayvs for the price of iron per ton the better it is for the workers—it is all on tonnage rates. Providing you had an urj-to-date plant and furnaces in full blast taking seventy oharges per day per man, that yvould mean at least three men for these furnaces. These men are getting 6s. per day, and all the other by-products are used up. You would not get men in Neyv Zealand to put seventy charges into the furnace per day. The question is, what would the average wage of these men work out at per day, providing you could get them? With regard to the manufacture of steel —it is the proposals of the company I have been referring to —they have proposed to place 65,000 tons of iron and steel on the market before getting a subsidy. This manufacture of steel would be a very big business. I know one firm in Scotland (Messrs. John Colville and Sons, Motherwell, Scotland) which is a very large manufacturer of steel. Well they have a plant, and it might interest members of the Committee to know the amount of moneyspent in additions to their plant is £250,000 for the manufacture of steel. I know the Americans have a process of casting steel rails direct from the furnace, but there is very little cast outside of America. They have discarded the system, and railway companies get their stuff from Colville and Sons, Motherwell, Scotland. Steel is made from haematite pig iron. This pig iron is put into steel furnaces and subjected to a great heat, and when it is drawn from the furnaces in a liquid state, manganese ore is added to it as it runs into ingots. I do not know if there is any of this ore in New Zealand; if not it yvould have to be imported. The price of coal is a big item; the coal there does not average more than 6s. per ton, and compared with the price of coal in New Zealand it is a big handicap. On the question of malleable iron—l consider that this is the most important of any. If blast furnaces are erected here in New Zealand it follows that puddling of iron yvould have to be started, if it is intended to benefit the community. There must be a large amount of malleable iron imported into New Zealand, and if, as if is contended, yvhich I very much doubt, that pig iron can be made very much cheaper here than the imported article, in justice to the community malleable iron should be manufactured here. Noyv, this making of malleable iron is another very expensive process, as a great lot of machinery has got to be put down. These companies manufacturing malleable iron in Scotland use a great amount of scrap; no one company uses one sort of pig iron alone; it is by this process and their plants that they have been able to produce such a good article. I will hand in mv notes to the Chairman, which yvill save a, lot of time. [Witness's notes were at this stage handed in to the Committee.] The Americans are noyv finding that their iron-ores are diminishing veryfast. There is just a possibility in time to come that this iron-deposit in New Zealand might be of value. My opinion is this : I think it yvould be very inadvisable for the Government to subsidize any private company. If the private company puts down a private plant the Government could give bonuses yvhen it had a certain amount of work accomplished. It would be very foolish of the Government to bind the country at the present time with the present, proposals. 4. Mr. Myers.] I take it, from your evidence, that in your opinion the iron industry could not be worked profitably in New Zealand at the present time? —That is my opinion. 5. That is the sum total of your evidence?— Yes. 6. In your opinion it yvould be many years before the iron industry could be properly worked in New Zealand, if ever? —Yes, on the present labour conditions; and they have a tendency to go up. 7. Then you do not think that it will be profitable for the State to commence ironworks on a large scale in New Zealand? —T do not knoyv; you will find the State does not, get its money from the clouds, any more than a private company does. 8. You see no objection to private people risking their money for the public benefit of future generations over that matter?—By no means. 9. Mr. G. M. Thomson.] Where did you get your experience, Mr. Milligan?—l was on the North British Railway for fourteen years, and had a good insight into all the working. Blast furnaces are confined to the west of Scotland, Carron in Stirlingshire, and Lanarkshire. 10. What size furnaces do they use there : you were speaking of them as only being capable of 40 tons per day?— They are generally 80 ft. high and 12 ft. across. 11. You do not know what difference there is between them and the furnaces in the Cleveland district? —I have known men who worked there, and furnacemen there state that furnacefilling is much the same as in Scotland. 12. Do not they turn out as much as 200 tons per day?—Thev might. It is all worked on almost the same process all over Great Britain. Baird's Gartshire No. 1 grade usually commands the highest price in Britain. 13. Mr. Nosworthy.] What do you think of the samples submitted to the Committee as the metal from the Parapara Company?—l can see this has been through a furnace. Tt is not very high in steel matter. I might say T was employed in a foundry, and the employer of that foundry is an engineer by trade, and he got a quantity of some 30 tons of pig iron in. I was helping to unload it. He came along and refused delivery. He said, " That is not the brand of iron I ordered at all." He said, " I wanted Govan brand." He was receiving Carron, Stirlingshire pig iron, the second best. He said he was expecting to get No. 1 in 4. A man used to pig iron knowsit whenever he sees it broken; it can be chemically tested as well. 14. The Chairman.] What do you think of that sample?—l believe there is a ouantitv of iron in it. I have heard of late of these tests of certain samples from Taranaki and so on. The best test yvould be to load a vessel with 1,000 tons, and give her another 2,000 tons of coal', and send it to a private company at Home to put a blast on it and test it. 15. Mr. Nosworthy.] You would advocate taking the local material and the coal Home to give a fair test? —Yes,