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H. G. ELL

on the work?— The man occupying this position should have an office, say, here, with instructive leaflets available, and authority to go before a Road Board or a County Council, or other local body, that has under its control waste lands, and he should endeavour to induce them to plant those areas. Such an officer would earn his salary many times over. 17. Dr. Cockayne.] I am not making any reflection on the officers here now in suggesting the appointment oi' highly trained scientific men —they are most excellent men —I am not reflecting on certain men who may be in New Zealand and who would probably be suitable for this work; but if forestry is to be put on right lines a great number of men may be required, and they are not here? —I think trained scientific men are very necessary. A mere planter of trees is not sufficient. He should have a knowledge of soils, the qualities of trees, their habits, and the age necessary before they can produce marketable timber. 18. Mr. Lethbridge.] Would not that be a matter of experience and of experiment largely! —Yes. 19. Mr. Clarke.] Do you not think our officers here could, with a scientifically trained man to assist in the way you suggest, do what was required without the necessity of having all these men referred to with university qualifications ?—The man you speak of is merely a skilled labourer, and can be got by the hundred in this country. You want to go beyond that. 20. You would not appoint him to control men? —No. The latter would form part of the staff of a forestry officer in charge of a district. 21. Mr. Adams.] lias not Mr. Robinson taken considerable pains to train some men?— Yes, in the art of planting only. But I do think it is essential that for a man to be a successful forester he must undergo a certain amount of scientific training. 22. Dr. Cockayne.] One timber we could find out all particulars about is Pinus radiata, because we have it here old enough; but would not work of that kind require a very distinct scientific training?— Yes; a man must have scientific training and instruction. 23. Mr. Lethbridge.] Are you aware that one-half the royalty on timber in certain parts of New Zealand goes to the local body?— Yes. 24. Seeing we are short of funds for forestry, do you not think that a moiety of that onehalf royalty should go to the Forestry Department instead of all to the local body?—l do. The millers rarely use the main roads, but draw their timber from the forests to the nearest railwayline without touching the roads. It is not a justifiable concession to the local bodies, and the money should go to encourage forestry. I wish to put in a parliamentary paper —C—lc, 1907— dealing with the forestry operations of the Government. I wish to call attention to the serious statement in this return, that at the outside the oldest trees in the Government plantations are not fourteen years old, and that they could not come into use until nearly sixty years from now. I do not think the country is doing its duty, or has done it for years past, in this matter. 24a. Dr. Cockayne.] A lot of private planting has been done ever since the " fifties " in all parts of New Zealand, and forms an object-lesson as to the effect of tree-planting on soil and climate; but about these trees we know very little. Would it not be for the benefit of the public, and of future forestry, if a proper scientific and economic survey were made of these plantations from north to south ?—lt would be very useful, because it would enable the Government to see the extent private planting has gone in the direction of supplying future requirements. But if you drew on the whole area planted it would be but a fleabite as compared with the needs of the country in the matter oF timber. As to the effect of denudation of our hill-lands, that can be seen in the case of the precipitous lands in the North Island, which is subject to heavier downpours than we have here, and where the ridges of the hills have been washed bare down to the rock. Later on the land will become poorer and poorer, while the low country will be subject to disastrous floods. Even the covering soil on some of our Christchurch hills is being washed away and deposited on the flats. It is very necessary that the forest covering should be preserved on all the ridges in precipitous country, or what has been left of it. It is not necessary to leave the timber-trees —they can be removed; but the scrub ought to be preserved. 25. Mr. Clarke.] What do you think should be done with such a reserve as the Waipoua Forest,'in the North Island, which is a valuable kauri forest?—lt should be preserved because of its unique character as a kauri forest, and we should not look only at the commercial interest— the sentimental side of life should be considered. Therefore, that forest should be preserved as a national reserve. 26. Mr. Murdoch.] It is difficult to save a kauri forest from fire, and if it is decided to remove the restriction on this forest do you not think the Government should cut it up themselves?—l do, but I hope the milling will be done with greater care than at Kakahi Government sawmill, where, there is as much waste as in any private milling-area. This brings me to the question of greater supervision being required over the milling of timber. I have seen trees felled 5 ft. and 6 ft. from the ground; in all milling-areas there should be Rangers on the spot to supervise the felling of trees. 27. The Chairman.] Do you not think the time has arrived when more accurate methods should be applied to the measuring of timber?— All our timber should be very accurately measured, and the milling supervised by a Government officer, to stop the waste going on. In some places the millers pay for the timber off the saw, and that is an incentive to waste. Likewise all forests should be managed under one authority, and not, as at present, under a divided one in some cases —the Lands Department and the Warden. 28. Mr. Murdoch.] Do you think the Forestry Department should stand by itself instead of forming a branch of the Lands Department?—l do. 29. Dr. Cockayne.] In the event of its being kept under the Lands Department, do you think a Board of practical and scientific men to advise would be better than the present method of leaving the matter in the hands of the Under-Secretary entirelv?—l am decidedly of that opinion, because you might have an excellent Under-Secretary with no experience as a forester.