I.—lb

42

G. CEAIG

111. In other words, you did not reveal to him when he came to you anything you had heard?—No; in fact, I was very sorry for the man. He seemed very much run doxvn and ill. 112. Did he look worse then than lie does now? —Yes, I expect he did. 113. Would you believe that he was almost a stone heavier in xveight then than he is noxv? — I do not know. A man may be a stone heavier and yet his mental condition not be good; in fact, very often when a man's mental condition is bad he gains in xveight, and it is often a verybad sign. 114. You had heard, then, prior to the 2nd December something about Johnston's attempt at shooting? —Yes, I must have heard, not prior to the 2nd December. Is that the first time he is supposed to have seen me, or was it the 2nd December that Sergeant Cooney rang me up? 115. It was when Sergeant Cooney rang you up ?—-1 am not certain about the ringing up. I rather think that Sergeant Cooney saw me in the street and put the case before me, but did not mention a name. That is the position. 116. It would not be the time subsequent to that that he refers to?— No. lam not quite clear as to what my first knoxvledge was of that, but I think Sergeant Cooney saxv me in the street and put the case in front of me. I said, " Perhaps the man had better be seen to; you had better send him along and let me see him." I concluded that the strike had got on the man's nerves, and treated him accordingly; and I think I had finished with him. He had not seen me for a day or txvo previous to that. The next I saxv of him xvas in the police-station. 117. When you were asked to examine him? —Yes. 118. You say you do not remember Sergeant Cooney ringing you up?—l remember Sergeant Cooney speaking to me about it. 119. You cannot remember his ringing you up?—l cannot remember the ringing-up part of it; in fact, I do not think it is likely. Is it likely that a detective would trust to the telephone in a matter of that kind? 120. He says he did so?-—Perhaps he did. 121. He said he rang you up to tell you that Johnston was coming to see you?—l think that was it. Anyhoxv, I never discussed the matter with Johnston. 122. We may take it that prior to the 2nd December you knew something or had heard something about Johnston's attempt to shoot his wife—the day on which Sergeant Cooney rang you up? —No, I did not know anything about the shooting. 123. Then Sergeant Wohlmann is absolutely xvrong if he says that you made a statement to him to that effect? —I do not remember it. I have no wish to hedge on this matter. I remember Sergeant Cooney talking to me about it and putting a hypothetical case. He did not mention any name. 124. Do you think it likely that you stated to Sergeant Wohlmann prior to the 2nd December that in your opinion Johnston was not safe to be at large ?—lf I knexv of the shooting it xvas very likely that I would do so. 125. It would only be if you heard of the shooting that xou would make such a statement? —Yes. 126. A man suffering from the petit mal of epilepsy is not necessarily dangerous?— No. 127. You tell us that you could only make the statement that Sergeant Wohlmann tells us you did make had you known of the shooting. 'Iherefore the shooting must have been known to you prior to the 2nd December ?—Y'es, but the first I knexv of the shooting must have been through Sergeant Cooney. The point is this : when did Sergeant Cooney give me the information? 128. That is his statement —on the 2nd December?—! think it is a most likely thing that, knowing of the shooting, I would quietly say something to the police; but it is quite possible that Sergeant Wohlmann's memory may not be reliable. Unless he had notes I should say he is mistaken as to dates. I should say he is making a mistake, because I knexv nothing about it before Sergeant Cooney spoke to me. 129. You will swear positively that until Sergeant Cooney spoke to you you knew nothing about Johnston's shooting ?—Before Sergeant Cooney spoke to me I knew nothing about Johnston at all. I saw him on the day he xvas shot, and naturally he xvas very much upset. I think that was the first time I ever dame into close contact with Johnston. He was on my verandah at the time some of the strikers xvere taking refuge in various parts of my house. Johnston was trying to get in. He had to be controlled then. 130. Dr. Beattie in his evidence xvas very emphatic in stating that only the facts observed by yourself xvere of any real value in making out a certificate for committal to a mental hospital: do you say he is correct in that? —No, Ido not say he is correct in that at all. I would leave the word " only " out. 131. Here is a paper read by Dr. Gray Hassell, of the Porirua Mental Hospital, before the Wellington Division of the Medical Association, and in it he states —" According to the new Mental Defectives Act of 1911, the facts indicating insanity in the medical certificate come under three headings, as folloxv : (1) Statements of facts indicating insanity observed at the examination; (2) facts observed by yourself prior to date of examination; (3) facts communicated by others. It is quite obvious, although too often overlooked, that the only essential and valid part of the certificate comes under the first of these headings. The facts observed prior to the examination, or those communicated by others, only serve to strengthen or confirm the statement of facts observed at the time of the examination, and by themseh'es cannot legally justify your issuing a certificate of insanity." Do you agree with that?—l have just pointed that out to Mr. Fisher. I have not read that paper, but substantially that is ray statement. 132. The facts observed by you at the examination, as stated in your certificate, are : " Emotional and excitable. States that he has been hypnotized by his stepfather, and that since