I.—9a.

\Y. K. SILL.

34

22. How is it possible- for a butcher to get his breakiasi in the morning after he starts his rounds? —It is not a question of "is it possible." Surely he is entitled to his breakfast. 23. Would it not be possible Eor him to get it if he did not start too early?—] say, if a butcher starts work before 6.30 he could have his breakfast, but if the employer wants him before 6.30 let him arrange for him to have breakfast. The man in the shop can get some one to relieve him while he gets breakfast. Cash shops very seldom start before 6.30. 24. Do you not think that the poll in regard to the holiday question under the Shop Act is held too often ? —1 should say it ought to be held every three years. 25. Would it not be better to give the alternative of Wednesday or Saturday for the halfholiday J— Yes. 26. Do you not think it would be better to have the districts in which the poll is taken made much larger? —Yes, I do. 27. What area do you suggest I—Fifteen1 —Fifteen miles. In Auckland you have to go outside that area some distance before you strike a stopping district. 28. Do you think that people living in a county should have a vote?— Yes. 29. Do you not think that the necessity for a requisition should be dispensed with after three years ? —No, if nobody wants it altered I do not see why they should have a poll every three years. 30. Do you favour 6 o'clock to start with being placed in a general Act?—No, in a general Act 1 would say sto 5, or 5.30 to 5.30. Most places want to start a little earlier on Saturday morning. 31. Do you not think it is quite unfair to inquire what a person takes in his business from an employee?—lf I went to Mr. Marks himself he would tell me. 32. Mr. Bradney.] Are there any pork-butchers in your union? —Pork-butchers to this extent, that they are making small goods. I have only one or two members who are pork-butchers' assistants. 33. Therefore you are advocating this not on broad principles. You do not represent the Pork-butchers' Union? —The pork-butchers approached me to come into the union, but the master pork-butchers tried to get them to form a union of their own. I opposed that, and my opposition was successful. The small-goods customer does not order small goods in the morning. It is a catch trade. 34. Are you aware that the principal pork-butcher in Auckland, although exempt under the Act, lost £500 in diminished takings in two months after the Saturday half-holiday came into vogue? —That was not wholly due to the Saturday half-holiday. It is due to other causes—was affected because the tram-cars did not go down that street. :i."j. His principal business was in Sydney Street. There he shows the greatest loss. Well, it affected him the same as it affected the butchers? Well, he is only one man. The Saturday afternoon holiday would ruin some men. 36. In regard to your remarks on clause 4, subsection (2), where you stated that this was a dangerous clause because the employer may not be honest, and the worker is in a hurry to get away, do you not think the worker is a responsible person and knows what he signs when he hurries off to get to the football match? You have not that plea to-day. The men are not ignorant; every man is educated and can read and write. Why cannot he look after his own interests? — For more reasons than what you have said. At 6 o'clock on Saturday night the football matches are usually over. 37. I am speaking of your objection to this clause in the Act?—A man will sign simply what his employer asks him to sign simply because of his job. 38. Not a very high standard for the men?—l know plenty of men admirable in many ways who act in that way out of other considerations besides themselves. You have to make laws to protect weakness. If every man had the same strong nature and character you would not need laws at all. 39. How do you propose to deal with shipping. Ships do not come in on Saturday afternoon any more than Wednesday?— There is a clause to provide for that. 40. Sometimes they come in with no food on board, and have to be provided with meat not only on Saturdays, but on Sundays. The large mail-boats often want tons of meat —a whole day is hardly long enough—and yet you say it can be done in the morning? — There is a proviso in the Act that an employer may open his shop to supply shipping. That meets the objection you have. 41. Do you realize that the various restrictions placed on the butoherH by past legislation has had the effect of closing up the small butchers, and creating a meat-monopoly in Auckland? —No; it is simply the conditions of trade, ilie price of meat, and very often the incompetency of the small butcher. The butchering conditions in Auckland existed before there was any legislation . 42. Do you not see the same conditions of things in Wellington I The shop you quoted is a suburban shop, not a catch trade at all. You admit that a lot of the population go out for recreation on Saturday afternoon?— There is more catch trade in the Karangahape Road, but the firm also own shops in the suburbs. It only means transferring trade from one centre to the other. More firms get the trade. 43. Another point you raise is the trouble of getting convictions against an employer. Do you think it reasonable, unless you have a complaint from an employee, that Inspectors should go round to look for evidence and stir up trouble? —The Inspector will not go unless he gets a complaint from me, and I will not go to the Inspector unless I have been to the employer and given him a warning Mr. Kettle, S.M., once said I was guilty of aiding an evasion of the law when he heard that, but the fact remains that an emplowi- generally gets three or four warnings before he is prosecuted,