I.—l Hα.

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PBOFESSOB I'K'KKN.

and when a period of about eighteen years elapsed before certain specified preliminary conditions were satisfied it is not surprising that the main part of that report lapsed: and it also was the ~; 15, ., i believe, that there were quite extraneous circumstances that interfered with the findings of that Commission being adopted. 40. J suppose yon do not know that that has been the general result of the findings of Royal Commissions in this country? -I have heard it s<. stated. I do not wish to express any opinion on that subject. 11. At any rate, you expect better results from the setting up of another Commission in this case?—] am perfectly certain that you could get good results. 42. Hon. Mr. Allen.] I should like to ask what your idea is with regard to this Royal Commission— whether it is to be a Commission to inquire into the question of University eduoation or the whole scheme of education in New Zealand from the primary school right up n> the University?— Well, the idea is for a Commission to inquire directly into the University problem. Of course, you cannot touch upon the University problem without touching upon its relationships with other branches of education, but 1 should say that keeping the University question in full view, and dealing with other things in so far as the\ broach on the University question, it would work out well. 43. I want to know whether you are asking for a Commission to examine into the question of university education alone? —Yes, that is so. 44. Then you are not asking for a Commission to go into the whole question of education? —No. 45. Do you think it would be possible for any Commission to come to any satisfactory conclusion witli advantage upon the question of university education without going into the whole problem light from the start? —Yes. Quite the best anil first step is to get the University put upon right lines, because your education system depends vitally on the training that your teachers are going to get. That is the ultimate problem of school education, and if you get your University put on the soundest possible lines you have done a rerj great deal towards the other parts of the scheme. 40. Then, do 1 understand from that'that you look upon it that the training of the teachers should lie purely-a University affair?—No, certainly not —not purely; but 1 think there is room for bringing it very much more closely into touch with the University than it is at present. 47. Well, how could a Commission inquire into the training of teachers if the training of teachers is not to be a University affair, and if the Commission is only to inquire into the University? —My idea of that is this: that under present conditions the University is not suitable for taking its proper share in the training of the teachers. If you put the University on the best possible lines for training the people intellectually, and not merely for getting them ready for examinations, you will make it possible for them to work with the training colleges in a wav which is not at present possible. 48. Then that would involve an examination into the training colleges?—No, I do not think that is a necessary corollary. At present we constantly find that many training-college students do not take our University course because those courses are associated with the University degrees. 49. The ('// airman.]n.] Without touching on the main problem, Professor Pioken, you said just now that the University is not suitable for training teachers? No. Ido not think it is. HO. In what way? That goes right to the root of the problem. I do not think that under the present conditions of external examinations and under the imposed syllabus that tin , I'niver sity is suitable for training for any profession except in the definitely professional schools. 5 I. Well, it has been very successful in the past in training?—lt always conies back to the reply that it is very hard to get facts about that, ami thai if have the really able man he goes through any type of training remarkably well. 52. Then from your argument we must have a very large number of able men in New Zealand going through?— l am not sufficiently cognizant of the facts to express an opinion upon that. 5-' i. Because they ,do take very prominent positions in main- respects?—Do you mean the graduates of the University do? 54. Yes, considering the population.'—l think from my own experience that there is a remarkably high standard of ability among the New Zealand peopll —I mean the conditions of this country all tend in that direction ; but I do not think that the schools in New Zealand are doing the work they ought to be doing, judging from my own experience of what is sent to us. 55. You mean the Secondary schools.' We get them from all types of schools. 56. What provision does your own University College make for coming into touch with the primary-school teacher? —Our own College has practically no function in that way. We are so much bound by the degree arrangements that really the University controls all our academic questions. We have practically no academic powers associated with our University College. 57. I understand you wish your own College to become a day-teaching institution mainly? — I do not say " mainly." 1 say we will never do the best class of university work until we inn have day-teaching for all students who can give the time to it. 58. Would not that bar the day school teacher from taking advantage of the training?— No. I think it is possible to have good arrangements made for evening-work. We have advocated that all along. I am a great believer in evening-work for those who cannot take up the work during the day, but 1 am convinced that you cannot conduct the two things together—that each will mar what is being done for the other. 59. Do you mean that if you have men teaching during the day that you cannot do eveningwork? Can you not provide proper tuition? —We have put forward a scheme by which we can carry on both if we can get sufficient financial assistance. ft would not mean nearly double the cost to run the institution in that way,