1.—13 a.

24

[SIB B. STOUT.

the constitution alone. There have been different Commissions at Home. Take the Scotch University Commissions or the Cambridge or the Oxford Commissions. In the case of the Scotch Commission you will find there what class of men they appointed; they did not leave it to mere professors. 72..Then, supposing we did agree to a Commission, do you think it would be of real material value to us to get the advice of the Commission simply upon university education alone without going into the whole question Prom the primary point of view I—lf you are going to have a Commission let it go from the top to the bottom, and have it. all investigated if you think that is necessary. 7-' i. That is what I want to have your opinion upon. . Do yon think it would be any use to us to have a Commission reporting on education alone?—l think they might have to deal with the relationship of secondary education to the University. 74. Can you give us some definite advice on the matter i Say you were going to appoint ■i Commission yourself; —I would deal with the University alone. I think that is sufficient for it to deal with at one time, but let it be a thorough Commission and an impartial Commission. 7">. Mr. Sidey.] I should like '<> know. Sir Robert, whether you think that the class of men who might lie suitable to aci on a Commission to inquire into the University might be different i'i(.in those wlid niiL'lit be chosen to consider the whole question, including tin , primary question of education?—] could nol say that. If a man has taken an interest in education he ought in lie able in deal with the relationship of the primary and secondary and»higher education. 70. Are you not more likely to find men who have made a specialty of the higher education without being familiar with the lower, and vice versa?-— That is so. Some may have paid more attention to higher education than others. You have to gel fair-minded men who would be reasonable. 77. How many men do vim think should compose tin- Commission?- You should have a large < lommission, I think. 78. How many do you suggest?— From six to nine. 79. Do you suggesi that they should bo men who are interested in education or only those who have an interest in certain matters? —I think perhaps it would be as well to have one or two business men on it who would look at it from that point of view as bearing on our Universities. I would not confine it to the educational expert alone. 80. Do you suggest Professor Sale us one?—T do not know whether he is eligible and whether he would act. tie is a very old man, but he is a very level-headed man. I only mentioned him us an illustration. Ido nol think it would be proper I'm , me to suggest names. 81. The Chairman.] You have replied so fully that 1 have only one or two questions to ask. First, in regard to the unpopularity of science in our University colleges. Does not that arise to a large extent from the fact that most of the students go to the University for the sole purpose of procuring the hall-mark and pass the degree?— Well, there : s more of that than there used io be. Of course, we know that in the ancient times, going buck si\lv years, in Scotland the majority of those entitled to the University degree did not take it. but nowadays I agree that the hall-mark is thought of more value than the knowledge. 82. But it i 1 know that ; but you Bee the position is this: that if you get a strong her who can make the eubject popular lie will get a large class. For example, the best illustration is what took place in P McGregor's eliss. Philosophy was nor a popular subject, but he made his clnss so popular tli.'.t a large number attended it. He was a born teacher; he created enthusiasm. 8-3. Does our University open its doors to the non-matriculated student?-—I understand so. The colleges do nor object to students whether matriculated or not; they can attend the classes. 84. Do many take advantage of that?— Some go who are not matriculated. 85. But Tiot to the -i'Hiie extent as before?— No. The Otago University started without any matricufation at all. That was the ancient Scottish system. I think T was the first student who entered in 1871. T went on for what is called honours in mental science. 86. And those exempted students to whom you referred do not take science subjects?—Thev cannot, because they have not » chance of what ia called laboratory practice. 87. And I take it they are mainly teachers desirous of improving their studies? —Yes, mostly, but some arc not. r had B letter from one of the teachers in a secondary school who was doing some coaching, in which i 1 ' that they were afraid there would be far less external students than before, especially in mathematics. 88. T do not know whether you are aware of the fact that in many training colleges science is not taken to any extent? — T think that is a L'reat pity. I think every teacher should know some science. 80. That affects the students who go tip to the University later? No doubt. T never did very much in science although I did study it, but T think the value nf science is not the result sr much as the method of science; that is the great thing. 90. There is one question T should like to ask which, as Chancellor, you may be able to answer. Ts there any tendency on the part of the r T nivers ; tv colleges to keep the teaching in the hands of the degre- men onlv —to make it a close corporation for degree men?—T do not thinkso. I think, of course, that the fact of <he hall-mark always has some effect, but T think they lookto the men who oan do the work. That is my attitude. T do not know what it is now. I was on the Otairo University Council for some years, and also T am on the Victoria College Council. 01. You will remember that Captain Hutton n without a doeree, was appointed? Yes. 92. Would lie have a oh mcc to-day?—.\s far as T am personally concerned he would, because I was ;' membpr of the Executive that npnointed him first in Otneo. O.'i. Would he have a chance to-day in the ITniversitv1 T niversitv colleges?—l think he ought to have T cannot sneak for those outside, but ■■ • what he had done. There is no dnubt he was a ifreat geologist and prent scientist.