1.—13 a.

34

I PUOFESSOR J,ABY.

General of Schools has had to a.nve at important and detailed conclusions without having the assistance of discussing it with others acquainted with the problem. But, still, it is necessary to give evidence on the .subject. There are certain principles underlying this report, or, at any rate, those principles are not departed from. 'I he first of these is that a view has been taken as to whether it is more necessary to increase the standard of the work done in the colleges as opposed to increasing the number of subjects taught in the colleges, and with some important exceptions the report appears to accept the principle that it is more important to increase the number of subjects taught than to increase the standard of the work. 2. Hon. Mr. Allen.] Where is that shown in the report?—l propose to support that at once. The important exceptions are that in Dunedirt the Medical School will be able 10 do much better work, and in Auckland there would lie a distinct improvement in teaching physics, and mental science at Auckland and Canterbury, and classics at Dunedin ; but at the same time the report proposes that commerce and law should be taught at all four colleges. At the present they are taught at the four colleges, but in the teaching of law Victoria College is the recognized school, and the Government gives it a special grant, which presumably implies that it is doing work of a higher character; but the effect of introducing the teaching of commerce and law into all four centres, if it is to be put on the same standard as the teaching of arts and science, will mean in the long-run that the demands on the finances of those four colleges will be such that an improvement in the standard of teaching in the other colleges will be impossible. 3. But that is not suggested, is it? —You will see it on page 10 of the report. " Proposed Staff." The underlying principle of the report is that the teaching of arts, science, law. and commerce shall be on exactly the same basis in all the four colleges. i. Oh, no?— That, I think, is certainly correct. 5. No, you have two professors in Victoria College and only two lecturers in Auckland, Canterbury, and Otago?—The only differentiation is between Victoria College and the other colleges. Three of the colleges are to be exactly alike, and, what is more, the special grant to Victoria College for teaching law is removed, and 1 shall give evidence that it is impossible to carry out the staffing on page 10 in Victoria College with the financial assistance proposed. It will leave us with a deficit of £4,000 a year. I think that is a point that members of the Committee might keep in mind. No proposals are made which would enable the stalling on page 10 to be carried out. The second principle which appears to underlie the report is that the population of the University district, the existing provision of revenue in the form of endowments, the number of students attending the College, and the standard of its teaching are not considered in the report as in any way affecting the granting of new revenue. These factors are ignored in the proposed provision for arts, science, law, and commerce. As showing that I would point out that the staff suggested for the four colleges to teach arts, science, law, and commerce is practically identical —in Otago there are to be twenty-six. Canterbury twenty-six, and Victoria College and Auckland twenty-seven. 6. That is the minimum suggested?— Yes. But the revenue provided to Victoria College is not sufficient to pay that minimum. While the staffs suggested are practically identical, the populations of the university districts are as follows: Auckland University District, 265,000; Victoria College (Middle University), 379,000; Canterbury, 173,000; and Otago, 191,000. The proposed expenditure on the colleges is: Auckland, £13,800; Victoria College. £13,800; Canterbury College, £17,450; and Otago University District, £22,950. The number of people in those districts per £1 of proposed expenditure is: Auckland District, 19; Victoria College District, 27; Canterbury, 10; and Otago, 8. In other words, there are three times as many people per £1 of expenses in the Victoria College District as in the Otago University District. The North Island districts contain 64 per cent, of the population of New Zealand, and South Island districts 36 per cent. The proposed national expenditure on university education would be 40 per cent, in the North Island and 60 per cent, in the South Island districts. 7. But you have your special schools? —There are to be no special schools in the North Island. 8. It is a Dominion'school? —The number of people per £1 of expenditure in the North Island districts would be 23, and in the South Island districts 9. As showing the provision that is made in primary and secondary education in these same University districts, I can point out that of the number of school-children provided for 39 per cent, are in the Wellington District; Auckland, 21 per cent.; Canterbury, 18 per cent.; and Otago. 22 per cent. Of the district high schools, 17 per cent, of the pupils are in the Auckland District; Wellington District. 50 per cent.; Canterbury District, 15 per cent.; and Otago District, 18 per cent. The next point is that the existing endowments have not been taken into account in the proposed allocation of revenue. The provincial endowments in the Auckland University District are £460; Victoria College, £70; Canterbury, £9,300 per year; and Otago, £7,100(in later parts of this statement put as £6,200). The proposed alterations in the statutory grants are as follows (I am leaving out of account the national endowment) : For Auckland a decrease of £224. for Victoria College a decrease of £500, Canterbury £261, and Otago £3,000. If the grant proposed from the national endowments is included, then the revenue from the State to be given to each college is as follows: Auckland, £2,276; Victoria College. £2,000; Canterbury College. £2,200; and Otago, £5,500. The endowments included here are those given by the Provincial Governments in the form of land at a time when similar provision in the North Island was impossible, as there was no Provincial Government to make them, nor. on account of the Maori War, the necessarj- settled conditions. 9. Do you mean that that applies to all endowments?—lt is to be observed that the South Island endowments will increase in value on account of public works paid for by the whole people of New Zealand. The proposals of the report have the demerits of a single university without