[.—l3a.

44

PUOFBBSOK LABY

Expenditure. Estimate by Eβ) imate of Witness. Report. Salaries — t: t t Ten professors .. .. .. •• r>loo Eleven lecturers .. .. .. •• 3,300 Six demonstrators, A». .. .. ■ • 900 Caretaker £126, mechanic £200, laboratory assistant £122 .. .. .. .. 14$ Registrar .. .. .. .. .. 300 Librarian .. .. .. .. .. 150 12,198 11,000* Library 300 250 Administration .. .. .. .. .. .. ( -)81 2.000 Apparatus and chemicals, &c. .. .. .. .. 630 560t Total expenditure .. .. ..14,109 13,800 Income .. .. .. .. 10,600 11.455 Deficit .. .. .. .. £3,609 12.345 3. Hun. Mr. Allen.\ That shows a difference of £200.' —Yes; but the income differs by a considerably larger amount than £200 : die total expenditure according to our estimate is £14,000, while the income is £10,600, making a deficit as regards Victoria College of £3,509. Aocording hi Mr. Hogben'a report it is £13,800 for expenditure and £1 1,460 as the income, sin.wing a deficit of £2,345. 4. Mr. Si(/(i/.\ Is not the chief difference between you and Mr. Hogben made up by the difference in fees? —Yes. I propose to go over the items now. We are agreed .about the grant. and Mr. Hogben says the fees would be £4,455. The report states, "If the fees at Victoria College and Auckland University College were brought up to the same scale as obtain, say, in the University of Otago, the amount of fees, assuming the number of students to remain the same, would be increased by about £•'!..">(>O and £3S."> respectively. Allowing for the falling-off of casual students if the fees were increased, it might probably be estimated that the revenues of the two colleges in question would be increased by .£2,500 and .£2OO respectively. . . . The raising of the fees for a degree course somewhat less than in the manner indicated to an average fee of £12 10s. would give Victoria College an increasd amount of nearly £2,800." You will see that the present fees (page 14) are £1,955, so that according to the report the total fees received at Victoria College would be £4,455. Well, my estimate is £3,000. Then. Mr. Hogben lias left out of account the small items of revenue mentioned. He gets the expenditure as £11,000, ami we get it as £12,198. If you add up the various items for salaries alone you obtain a total of £11,200, and Mr. Hogben puts the total as .£ll,OOO, so that on his own figures there is a difference of £200. The report includes the salary of Registrar and librarian under the item of administration. Its figures are seriously wrong on the question of apparatus and chemicals: see page 12, where it is stated. " Allowing for the employment of mechanicians and laboratory assistants where they art , not now employed, . . . we may fairly consider that the following sums will be sufficient to meet the annual needs (for new apparatus, renewals, and materials) of the several colleges for the laboratories connected with the courses provided thereat : Arts and science. £550." .£550 is stated to be the amount for Victoria College. In 1912 our expenditure on apparatus and chemicals, including no salaries, was £546. The estimate for 1913 at Victoria College is £630. To get the total Mr. Hogben is dealing with you have to add to that £200 for the salary of a mechanic and £122 for wages of certain attendants, making a total for Victoria College of £952. 5. Mr. J. C. Thornton.] Mr. Hogben does not include the salaries of mechanics?- Yes. Table J says, " The salaries of mechanicians and laboratory assistants other than demonstrators are included." So that the sum he proposes would reduce our expenditure on the laboratories by 4:0 or 50 per cent. The teaching of science would become impossible at Victoria College under those figures. The only other thing we have to comment on is the question of the estimation of the fees in that table. You will see on page 15 how the fees have been estimated. I think this is a most important point, and throws a great deal of light on the way Mr. Hogben proceeded in the matter, and the work of the different University colleges. He states, " The fees vary a great deal now in the several colleges. Taking the fees paid by the Government on behalf of the holders of Senior National Scholarships and bursaries as an approximate indication of the fees payable by students taking degree courses in arts, science, commerce, and law, we find the average fees paid by such students to be —Auckland, £12 10s. 5d.; Victoria College, £5 15s. 10d. ; Canterbury College, £14 18s. 3d.; Otago University. £14 Us. 6d." Mr. Hogben. in order to estimate the fees, has taken the average fee paid by a small selected group of students, the students in question for 1911 being —Auckland, 16; Victoria College, 27; Canterbury, 16; and Otago, 31. They are picked students, and therefore are capable of taking more courses than other students. If you take the average fee paid by all students at Victoria College and Otago you will find the average fee was £4 in the case of Victoria College and £12 in the case of Otago. Mr. Hogben proceeds to argue that the fees at Victoria College should be increased until the average student

* Does not include salaries of Registrar and librarian, which arc included under " Administration." t nullifies salaries of mechanics and laboratory assistants.