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purpose of the present inquiry than that the present arrangements as to day and evening classes are to be continued"/ —Shall I put it tliiss way: that while the report actually provides the finances to make various alterations, including considerable improvements in the Medical School, which we have always s.aid wore very accessary, it makes no provision for the introduction of day teaching in the North Island colleges, which we have also contended is equally necessary. 1 should like to point out why we think it is necessary. The salaries for teaching a single science subject according to the report will be £1,150 per year, and for the three science subjects £3,450; in addition to that grants for apparatus, laboratory, and assistants amounting to £700 or £80(1 are made, so that the expenditure a< each college would be about £5,500 a year on the teaching of science. Consider what return you get in the North and South Island colleges for that expenditure. It is a pretty considerable expenditure, and 1 think an adequate return from it may be expected. One test, and a pretty fair test, for getting at what is the actual return for thai expenditure is to examine the average number of graduates at the different colleges. It is shown in the following table : — Average Number for College. Three Years. B.Sc. M.Sc. Auckland ... ... ... ... ... ■■"-':' I Victoria ... . .... ... ■ ■ ... ... 1 I Canterbury ... ... ■■■ - g Otago '.. ... ... 4J H That seems a very inadequate return for the expenditure in New Zealand on the teaching of science, and it is not very difficult to find the cause at Victoria College for the poor number of students who avail themselves of the teaching of science. Before going into that there is one misapprehension which I should like to remove, and that is that the science teachers at Victoria College are not fully occupied. The number of students they have at present I think is as much as they can teach, but those students are taking the unee-ordinate courses which do not qualify them for any profession. Our finished students often are not qualified to be teachers in secondary schools or teachers in technical colleges, or analytical chemists, or to take up any other specialized work in science after they have graduated. One of the reasons for that is the students are unable to cover in the evening during six months of the year a course which would be adequate for the proper degree in science. As a result of having only evening lectures in science it is impossible for students to attempt in the time available to undertake the present course for the science degree. If the Dominion is to get an adequate return for its present expenditure on the teaching of science then it must have day teaching in science in the North Island colleges, in order to enable many more students to take the science degree and thereby benefit by the teaching which is available at the College. That some improvement is necessary in the present arrangements of teaching science is shown by the resolution of the Professorial Conference at its meeting in Wellington last yea) , . At the conference of professors it was decided- —and they were quite unanimous about it—that it was necessary to introduce entirely different science-teaching, and to introduce a degree that would give a professional qualification. The report says, " The following report on the institution of a new degree in science was referred by the conference to the teachers of the subject involve/] and the heads of the mining, engineering, and medical schools for consider ation, to be reported upon at the next conference: 'Whereas it is desirable to institute a degree suitable for the requirements of persons intending to engage in scientific work in connection with agriculture, manufacture, and other technical pursuits, this Committee recommends that a special degree in science be established, the subjects of study for which shall be —(1) Mathematics (pure and applied); (2) physics; (3) chemistry; (4) physiology; (/>) geology; (G) zoology; (7) botany.' I think that that expression of opinion by the whole body of science professors is one to which some weight should be attached. The teaching for that degree would be quite out of the question in the evening, so that if any student is ever u< be able to proceed to such a degree as those professors regarded as a desirable degree then there must be day teaching in Victoria College; but, as I have already pointed out, Mr. Hogben's report makes no provision for that improvement in our work. I think one can say generally that teaching of a university character is impossible in a college which merely teaches in the evening. As evidence of that I will give you the opinion expressed by a Royal Commission in Victoria on the work done at Victoria College and at Auckland. That Commission said that neither in scope nor in character was it the same as is done in other universities. You will see from the first page of Mr. Hogben's report that he was directed by the Minister of Education to inquire and report how " the library equipment of the colleges should be strengthened, especially in the interests of research." I should like you to notice how Mr. Hogben proposes to strengthen the libraries in the interests of research. On page 14, Table L, lie proposes that the expenditure on libraries should be £250 at each of the four colleges. We can test what that will do for the libraries by considering it in comparison with what is at present done at some of the colleges. You will see from the top of page 14, Table X, that at Victoria College for the year ended 31s1 March, 1912, we spent £307 on the library. Therefore, according to Mr. Hogben, the library at Victoria College should be strengthened, in the interests of research, by decreasing the expenditure on it by £50 a year. 10. Mr. Side//.] That is just the expenditure for one year : it is not the annual amount, is it? —It is the regular amount. The expenditure for the coming year has been set down at £300. 11. Mr. McC'aliui/i.] That inoludes, does it not, the salary of the librarian? —No. That is mentioned separately as £150. The £300 is divided up, roughly, as follows : about £100 is spent on journals, £50 on binding, and £150 on books. I submit to you that Mr. Hogben does not carry out the instructions of the Minister, and that his proposals must be amended in order to accord with the Minister's instructions. You may say that research is provided for at Victoria