1.—13 a.

52

jI'ROKKSSOK GABBAT'f.

28. L'here again oiir Senate would have no power of originating a proposal to appoint or dismiss.' —The Senate lias not that power at present, lhat power is vested in the governing bodies of the colleges. 29. You propose to change the constitution m> as to sot up a Board of Studies with the powers at present held liv the Board of Governors or Council? — No, my proposal was definitely diieeted tn changing the constitution of the University. I have not suggested any alteration s.i far in the constitution of Hie colleges. in. You would leave the Council in Victoria College, for instance, unchanged) —I do not see ;mv reason why it should l)e changed. I think in every ease the Professorial Boards should have direct representation on the governing body of the College. 31. Does not the Council at present have some cognizance of the curriculum] —The governing body of the College? 32. Yes?— Practically not. It has nothing to do with the curriculum of the University at all, ami I have never known the Board of Governors at Canterbury College make any direct suggestion about the classes. Of course, they have sometimes founded professorships without the recommendation of the Professorial Board, but the Hoard of Governors at Canterbury College practically does not interfere with the curriculum at all. ■').">. You would still leave the power of appointment and dismissal of the professors in the hands of the University College Council) Yes, the College governing bodies. I think the Professorial Boards of the colleges should have the same rigb.4 as is possessed by the corresponding bodies at Home. They should have the light to recommend. 34. Then practical!}' you are suggesting that the Board of Studies should have the right of appointment and dismissal? — No, not the Board of Studios— that is a different body. The Professorial Board of a College should, in my opinion, be consulted before a professor is appointed by the μ-nverninf.' body of that college. The University has at present, I believe, no voice whatsoever in anything of that kind, only the colleges. 35. But 3'ou are using words without defining them. You talk of "the University," then you talk of "the governing body," and then of "the Senate," and it is rather difficult to follow you?—l am using them in the ordinary sense. I talk of the University of New Zealand. Are you an Otago man 1 36. Yes?— Well, we never think of Canterbury College as a university —we always talk of it as a college. When I say " the governing body " I mean the governing body of the College. 37. The governing body of the College is the Board of Governors of the College?— Yes. 38. Is there not a confusion of terms there? —I say " the governing body " because the nomenclature is different in different centres. 39. Ts not the Board of Governors the μ-overning body.' Yes, at Canterbury. The Council is the governing body at Victoria College. I will say " the Hoard of Governors " if you think it makes it clearer. When I say " the governing body " I mean " the Board of Governors." 40. You would allow the appointment and dismissal of the professors to remain wholly in the hands of the Board of Governors?—l say the Professorial Board should be consulted, but the final decision should be in the hands of the Board of Governors, certainly. 41. Do you advocate the power of veto on the part of the Professorial Board? —That I have not considered. I have considered the constitution of the University of New Zealand rather than all the separate colleges. 42. You referred to the University of Liverpool. Is it not a fact that the University of Liverpool has only had a life of about eight or nine years?— The University of Liverpool was founded in 1904, but the University College of Liverpool has been going on since 1881. 43. That is only about nine years) —The University College of Liverpool had great experience as a constituent college of the Victoria University, to which it was admitted, I think, in 1884. 44. You referred us to this Board of Studies of the University : when did it take control in Liverpool) —Of course, when the University was founded. 45. That was when?—ln 1904, I think; but there had been a similar Board in the Victoria University, which preoeded the Liverpool University. That Board existed for twenty years before 1904. 46. Mr. McOallum .] When you use the expression "predominantly lay" do you refer to the existing Senate or the Senate as you desire it to be when you reform it? I take it you referred to the present Senate as being a body predominantly lay?—l may have done so. 47. You desire to have a Senate in future predominantly lay, with an advisory body to be called the Board of Studies?— Ye*. 48. To advise that predominantly lay body, which is the Senate? —Yes. 49. Now, as to the constitution of the Senate, what objection have you or the reformers to the form of appointees by the Government? The Governor in Council appoints four: is there any objection to that?—No, I do not express any opinion on that. 50. You want us to extend the representation held by the governing bodies on the Senate? — Yes. 51. We have the greatest representation, two each. There are eight altogether?— Yes. 52. What objection have you got to the Professorial Boards sending one each? —None. I said they should send one each. 53. Now we get down to two apiece from the District Courts of Convocation —the graduates. That brings you into touch with the educational thought of New Zealand?—l do not know about the educational thought of New Zealand. I know what happens in Christchurch about the appointment of these representatives, and that is'that it is in the hands of about twenty people. If a professor stands practically no one will stand against him, and that seems to me a bad thing. 54. Your main objection is the District Courts of Convocation?—No, I am not objecting to that. Ido not express any opinion on that.