1.—1:-<a.

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JG. HOGBEN.

could be thrown upon the various questions by consideration of certain possible future needs, as in the matter of the provision of the increased number of assistant lecturers or demonstrators required for an increased number of students. (2.) Another misconception is contained in the words used by Professor Laby in his evidence given on the 15th August (page 19. typewritten copy of evidence) : " The report appears to accept the principle that it is more important to increase the number of subjects taught than to increase the standard of the work." Ido not accept that principle, nor do 1 tind in the report anything that gives colour to the statement. Ihe schemes of staffing suggested for the four University colleges are set forth as what in my opinion constitutes the minimum for efficiency. If a comparison is made of Table A on page 2, which shows the present teaching staffs of the University colleges (as existing in June, 1912), and Table H on page 10, which gives the suggested minimum staff for each college, it will be seen that of the subjects named in the first list two —Hebrew and military science—are omitted altogether on the second list, and no new subject whatever is introduced. It is true that in the suggested type scheme in Table H the minimum that would be required for the teaching of architecture and of veterinary science is set down. The reasons for these two subjects appearing at all may be easily explained. In both subjects provision for degrees has been made by the University, in both subjects there has been a demand for teaching, in both subjects there has been a request to the Government for the necessary grants; the University of Otago already provides a large part of the scientific teaching required in veterinary surgery, and Canterbury College much of what would be required for architecture; moreover, I have had the advice of experts of high standing in each of these subjects, not only in New Zealand but elsewhere, as to what would be necessary for their proper teaching, and have accordingly set it down here for future reference if required. But I have not proposed the provision of any staff for these branches among the suggested immediate minimum needs of the colleges; I have pieferred to strengthen the existing subjects, not so much indeed as I should like, but as far as it seemed reasonable to go now. In fact, I believe that there is not a single subject except education and music in which I have not suggested an immediate strengthening of the staff in one or more of the colleges. (3.) Professor Laby made several comparisons of the proportion of population in the several University college districts and the proportion of the proposed grants assigned to the University colleges. This assumes that the nominal constituencies or districts of the several University colleges, as defined by the University Act, are the real or actual constituencies from which students are drawn. This omits altogethei the effect of the special schools of medicine, dentistry, mining, home science, and engineering, each of which has the whole Dominion for its constituency. But it appears to be an erroneous assumption in other respects also. The real constituencies consist of the population from which the students actually come. It is difficult to find an exact measure of these actual constituencies. If we take as a measure the number of students in the faculties of arts and science at the date (June, 1912) to which the report refers, we find that Otago had 247 students and Victoria College 238 students, the numbers being nearly equal. If it were correct to take the populations (191,000 and 379,000 respectively) of the University districts as defined by the New Zealand University Act, and quoted by Professor Laby, Victoria College ought to have twice as many students as Otago; in fact, if evening students take longer to pass through the degree course than day students (as they should, and probably do) then the number of students in attendance at any one time will be greater accordingly. For instance, if they take four years for the B.A. course, then the number of B.A. students in attendance at any given time will be one-third greater than if they took three years only. So that, with the assumed constituencies lased on the population of the University districts, Victoria College should have 2§ times the number of arts and science students that Otago has. But it has not. It appears to me, therefore, that all the comparisons of population, endowments, grants, and expenditure based upon the assumption that the nominal constituencies are the actual constituencies are misleading and valueless. (4.) It was assumed bj several <>i' the witnesses, more especially Professors Laby and Picken ("if this new principle is to be introduced of the payment of the extra people by fees," etc.). that the report suggests the payment of the additional lecturers and demonstrators required for an increased number of students by fees. I did not intend my remarks on page 9or anywhere else in the report to be taken in this way, nor do I think that that is the natural meaning of the words I have used. As the paragraph in which this matter is mentioned implies, there is for each subject or branch a minimum staff required for efficiency, however small the number of students, and it is obvious that an increase of students beyond a certain limit will entail an increase in the staff. If I say that, with the scale of fees in force at any college it is found that the increased fees do actually provide enough money to pay the recognized standard of salaries for the increased staff. I am merely statin? a fact, surely the fees must be taken into account in arriving at the total revenue of the college. I would certainly not regulate the salary of a lecturer by the amount of fees available, nor the staff in any subject according to the fees received from the students taking it, much less would I pay any professor or lecturer by fees. (5.) Professor Picken made the remark " that it seems that the University is to be under the head of the primary schools."- Presumably the Inspector-General of Schools is meant. If so, the description is not a good one; he has as much or almost as much to do with secondary schools, technical schools. Native schools, and industrial schools as with primary schools, and may even be called upon to advise the Government in certain matters affecting the University when there is a question of legislation or of the expenditure of public money. Professor Adamson also says, "The Education Department would control the University." The Education Department is innocent of any such desire. But I agree with the witness if he means that the University should be as independent as possible of any Government control —it should be self-contained and free to move along its own lines without dictation from any official source. The words I have used on page 10 of the report. " But Ido not desire." &c., were intended to have this meaning. Ihe