1.—13 a

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[G. HOGBEN.

2. Mr. Malcolm.] Do those bursaries cover the whole course or only a year?- -They are foi more than on;: year, perhaps three years. 3. llien there tire a number for one year only, such as the " Grey and the " Kussell "1 — Yes. Witness (continuing statement): He says that evening students take fewer lectures than day students, and so the feus paid each year by them will be lower than those paid by day students, hut this will not affect the total amount received in fees for any given number of persons in a district taking degree courses. Let us take an example. Let us suppose thai a certain number of day students take three wars for the B.A. course, and an equal number of evening students take four years. If the total fees lor the course were £36 we might for the sake (if the present argument assume that the day students pay £12 a year in fees, and the evening students £9 a year. But at the college where the day students are there would be among them at any one time students of the first year, second year, and third year, while at the other college where the evening students are there would be first-, second-, third-, and fourth-year students, or times as many in attendance for the same number of persons in the community taking B.A. courses. Ihe total annual fees would thus oome t<> exactly the same for the evening students as for the day students. Before discussing the probable effect of the raising of the fees at Victoria College I should like to point out the dilemma in which those who urge the argument of the population of the nominal constituencies (or University districts) and the argument of the alleged extravagant estimate of fees contained in the report will find themselves placed. If the arts and science students at Victoria College were equal in number to those in Otago the amount of fees received for them alone would have been, in 1912, £3,469 on the Otago scale, and to tins to find the total income from fees we should have to add the fees of all the other students, making more than the total of £4,45") considered to be so extravagant an estimate. If the number of students were in proportion to the population the total fees would be at least £8,000 or £9,000, and finance would cease to be a problem for the Victoria College Council. Again, taking the number of matriculated students at Victoria College this yea)-. 312, and assuming that the fees were at the same rate as at Auckland, where also most of the lectures are given in the evening (say, £12 10s., average), the total amount would be for these students £3,906; adding the fees actually payable by the unmatriculated students, £585, and, say. £300 tuition fees (if the legal difficulty were got over), we should have a total of £4,785, or £340 more than my estimate. The circumstances under which the fees at Victoria College were raised make it extremely difficult to form a correct estimate of what they are finally likely to produce. The fees for the first-year students were raised at short notice, and many to my knowledge have in consequence postponed their entrance into the college, therefore the number of first-year students is not likely to be so low again as ninety-two. Also, the authorities of Victoria College did not show the same energy in making known the extended bursary scheme that, for instance, Otago did, consequently Otago has eightytwo bursars (or ninety-five with the home-science bursaries) this year to forty-two at Victoria College. To take the entry of students this year as a true index is. therefore, in my opinion misleading, and after a few years I believe my figures will be found to be not far short of the truth. Meanwhile I would suggest that Victoria College and Auckland should be secured against loss by guaranteeing to them for a certain time a minimum income from fees, endowments, and grants taken together. (8.) Libraries and laboratories : A basal mistake in the criticisms on these points is the confounding together .if annual or recurring expenditure and capital expenditure or expenditure intended to overtake arrears of requirements not previously satisfied : for instance, considering how many books appear on the library shelves in their original bindings, £100 cannot be the ordinary expenditure for binding £50 worth of periodicals and £150 worth of books. The best arfswer I can give to the criticism on my proposals in these matters is to point to tin- actual expenditure. I do not myself think it is enough, but I think the funds proposed to be placed in trust with the University will allow of its increase. Part of the law fees might provide partly for the law library ; this 1 have already suggested in the report (page 7). For honour students surely the Law Societies' libraries might lie made available, if they are not so already. I find it difficult to follow Professor Laby in his financial statements: in one place he says the additional revenue proposed to be given to Victoria College is £1,000. in another £2,000, in a third £3,300, and, I think, something different elsewhere. Sometimes he takes as his basis of comparison the grants of last year, sometimes the grants as appearing in the estimates of the present year, the figures of which naturally were not available to me in 1912. After my report was printed Parliament last year voted an extra £1,000 a year to Victoria College because of its urgent needs; accordingly my proposed increase is cut down by £1,000 by the professor! I think the best way is for me to revise and restate the proposals in regard to Victoria College even more fully than in my report, showing its actual position and its position under the proposals. Tahle N. — Estimates of Annual Revenue and Expenditure (as in June, 1912). EXPENDITURE. Proposed (a). Actual (1911). £ £ Salaries of staff ... ... ... ... ... 11,200 Libraries ... ... ... ... ... 300 Laboratories . ... ... ... ... 750 Administration ... ... ... ... .. 1,750 Total ... ... ... ... ... £14,000 £10,592