158

a—l 4.

fp. G. MORGAN.

89. The Chairman.] How long is it since lie died ?—Two or three years ago ; but lie wrote upon the subject about twenty years ago. The earliest discussions were thirty or more years ago. 90. Mr. Tunks.] The subject has been taken up at a much later date than that ?—Yes, there was extensive discussion about ten or twelve years ago ; but there has not been much lately, so far as I know. 91. You will admit that the eruption at White Island and the disaster do'coincide ?—They were probably within two days of one another—possibly within thirty hours. 92. Mr. Wilford.] Were you aware that in the recent exposure at Home, made by Mr. Philip Snowden, it was shown that seventy-six shareholders of Nobel's were Germans, and amongst these were three German banks and five German Army officers ?—I did not know that. I knew there were many German shareholders. 93. The Chairman.] Has the weight of the atmosphere indicated by the barometer anything to do, in your opinion, with these falls in the mine ? Is there any connection between the two ?—I do not think that barometric variations are important in causing firedamp to issue from the coal, but if there are any old workings containing firedamp a sudden fall would favour the issue of gas into the new workings. Again, a sudden rise would affect the earth's crust more than minute seismic tremors. 94. We have had a table put in showing the barometer at over 30 in. ?—Yes, and according to Mr. Bates there was a sudden rise of the barometer ; that might have had some little influence. 95. Any sudden change ?—Yes. 96. Mr. Brown.] That is an acknowledged fact by most mining men ? —Yes ; and therefore all collieries have to keep a barometer at the mine-mouth. 97. Mr. Dowgray.] When you visited the mine on the 29th September did you discover a great quantity of gas ?—The only gas which I thought serious was at the fall in No. 5 bord. Mr. Reed got several tests of from 1 to 2 per cent, in his lamp, but I did not see them very clearly except in one case where I thought I saw a slight cap. 98. A 2-per-cent. cap ?—No, probably below that. 99. In what part was that ?—That was in No. 5 section, at the place where a full truck of coal was standing near a face. A little way off the floor was swept clean. Mr. Reed called out that he had got a cap, and we all went in, but it could not be got again, I think, because the air had been too much disturbed by the number of people who went in there. 100. You stated that the presence of a large quantity of gas after the explosion was no indication that the mine was a gassy mine ?—I said it was no proof that the mine was gassy before the explosion. 101. Does it not prove to you that the strata contained an extraordinary amount of gas ? —Not extraordinary by any means, but a large amount—not, of course, anything approaching the quantity which is found in Pennsylvania and elsewhere in oilfields. The strata at Huntly do not necessarily contain much gas compared with the quantity found in oil-bearing countries. 102. But they certainly contain more gas than is found in most of the coalfields of New Zealand ? —Yes, so far as I know. Of course, most of the coal-mines here are worked almost on the surface, and this gives the gas a better chance of escaping than if they were worked at depth and from shafts. For example, the Denniston and Millei'ton mines are not gassy. 103. The State mine is not worked near the surface ? —Point Elizabeth ? Well, there is firedamp there. One section is worked with safety-lamps, or at least it was when I was there in 1910. 104. Mr. Brown.] Mr. Wilford was questioning you about monobel; can you name the mine where the accident occurred through the use of monobel ?—The Barnsley Main Colliery, in England. 105. Would you be surprised to learn that it occurred in the intake airway ?—No. 106. If three shots were bored into the strata and one or two did most of the work, what would happen with the other ?—You would probably have a blow-out shot. 107. And flame ?—Yes, aflame would be produced. 108. And most explosives, you think, would do the same thing ?—Yes, all ordinary explosives are more or less flame-producing. 109. And more so if they have not got sufficient work to do ?—Yes, there is always a flame if they are exploded in the open.

John MoGill, Deputy, sworn and examined. (No. 23.) 1. Mr. Tunks.] You are a deputy in Ralph's Mine ? —Yes. 2. I understand that during the week prior to the accident you had had instructions to get rails out ?—Yes. 3. Who were those instructions from ?—Mr. Gowans, the under-manager. 4. Where were you to get the rails from ? —The winch-level. 5. That is in what district ?—The little dip section : you have to go through No. 5 to get there. 6. Were you able to get the rails out for Mr. Gowans ? —No. 7. Did you know that anybody else had been told off to get them out on the Stafcurday ? —No. 8. When did you last see Mr. Gowans ?—Friday afternoon. 9. At about what time ?—About 3.30. 10. Where did you see him I —At the foot of the ladder. 11. That is where you generally got your instructions from him ?—Yes. 12. I want you to state in your own words what took place when you met Mr. Gowans ?—He asked me if I had two men to spare during the week to try and get some rails out for Mr. Smith's section : he said they were short of rails. On the Friday afternoon he had come through to Bond's dip and from Bond's dip through No. 5 section he had come the return airway.