25

L—l3a.

H. BIRBS.J

20. And do not they generally take larger country schools?—lt depends on whether they can get them, and on the number in the district. 21. Are there not a very much larger number of schools of Grades IV and V than there are of third assistants in big schools—are there not four times as many? —Yes, that is so. 22. And is not the only promotion for a teacher to be from a school of Grade II to a school of Grade III?—It is usually from Grade II into a town. They gel into the country and take charge of a school for two years, and then go into the town as assistants, and then go back to higher country appointments. 23. There is plenty of room for promotion from Grade II to Grade 111 now?— There may not be very much room for promotion from Grade 111 to tirade IV. 24. Do you think it advisable to establish a great many separate schools in New Zealand? — 1 would certainly think so if the Department had the money. 25. Would it not be very much more expensive?—l am granting that, but it is worth the expense. We feel it is worth the expense. 26. But would not the salaries lie much higher?- That would have to be faced. 27. If you added together the salaries of three separate schools that would make a mixed school? —Yes. 28. Supposing you had a mixed school and then broke it up into three schools, the headmistress, I suppose, would become the headmistress of a separate school : would she not receive ■ a higher salary than she now receives? —You are putting a hypothetical case. 29. By taking a mixed school and breaking it up into separate schools one advances the salaries all round? —We have cases of separate schools here. We are now discussing the question of taking our mixed schools and breaking them up into separate schools. We have separate schools where the women have to do exactly the same work as the men, and you will agree with me that girls are just as valuable to the State as boys. I know that the majority argue from an economic standpoint, and say you can get women cheaper, and therefore you should pay them smaller salaries; but if you ask women to do exactly the same work as the men, and expect them to take the same responsibilities, why should you not give them the same salaries? For instance, the men teachers in these separate schools are now up in arms to defend one man in the Nelson District who is in the unfortunate position of being head of a girls' school. He has an average attendance much larger than that of the head of the boys' school; he has the same work and responsibility, and vet be is to be paid a much lower salary; and on that account the New Zealand Educational Institute is with us in asking for this change. We have looked at the position from all points except so far as the economic point of view is concerned, and we see no reason why women teachers in girls' and infants' schools should not be paid the same as men teachers for the same work. 30. Have you examined it from the point of view of finding out whether if we did break up a mixed school it would be very much more expensive? —It may be more expensive. 31. Would it not Ik- better to expend that money in restaffing all our schools throughout the Dominion?—l do not think I could very well answer that question offhand. It all depends, after the ten or twelve years that we have had mixed schools, whether we are fully satisfied with the position of the girls in those schools, whether we feel that our girls have received the best possible training. Very many educationists feel it is a great mistake, and I sympathize with them to a certain extent. I feel that the girls of the Dominion are not getting justice. I was through the separate schools in London, and I was charmed with the work being done for the London girls, and I came back with my mind made up that in many ways it would be a very good thing I'm' New Zealand if the boys' and girls' schools were separate. 32. In regard to the fifth and sixth positions in Grade Vll schools, you notice that the fifth position is £140 to £170, and that now under the Bill it becomes £190' to £220? —I notice that. 33. The fifth position is now £150 to £180 instead of £120 to £150, an increase of £30?— Yes, that is so. 34. So that women in those positions are getting an increase of £20 in the minimum and £30 in the maximum?— The majority of the women teachers in large grade schools will never rise any higher than Chat. Is not the increase worthy of the work demanded of them? We quite agree that in the majority of positions there is a slight increase. 35. The old maximum is now the minimum, and the new maximum is £30 in advance: is that not so? —Yes. 30. Is it not true that the salaries are higher than ever liefore? —In the higher grades. In the third-assistant positions, if you look at the next one, which is also marked 5, I think you will find a very largi increase in salary, while at the same time the duties and responsibilities are not anything like as great as those demanded of the infant-mistress. 37. Does not the mistress get one of the two salaries, 5, 5? —Yes, and she has an increase of £10. What is the increased salary of the third assistant I And that is what the women teachers of the Dominion feel to some extent is an injustice to them that the framers of the Act could have obviated. 38. The whole grading of ten grades has been changed into seven grades)— Yes. that is so. 39. Do you notice that the grades have lieen made larger?— Yes. 40. And when we have included the higher grade we have carried the lower grades into the higher grades?-—We quite agree with that, but we say at the same time that if you are going to raise the third assistant £70, the first female assistant, who is second assistant, should receive a salary corresponding to her position. 41. Was it not tin- women who wished to get that? —Only in the two districts, Auckland and Otago.

4—l. 13a.