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very high; and they find it very difficult to get along comfortably on the salary which is at present paid and which is proposed to be paid, and they think they will not be able to do much better under the proposal in the Bill. Many of these men, in order to improve their financial position, have to do extra work. They are engaged occasionally as often as three or four times a week in the evenings on extra work—coaching—and that must interfere with the work for which the State pays them. The Institute is strongly of opinion that these teachers should receive a larger increase than is proposed under the Bill. I understand that an assistant from the Wellington District is to give evidence before the Committee, and the New Zealand Educational Institute desires to support the claim of these teachers for more consideration. It is just possible that it may be said that these men —first assistants—might go into the country and take country schools. I have looked through the scale, and I find that only about sixty-six places would be vacant which they would be inclined to apply for or would be eligible for. These would be headmasterships of schools in Grade V, and there they would come into competition with the 122 headmasters of Grade IV schools, so there is not very much chance of promotion in that direction. We ask for the very favourable consideration of the Committee with regard to the claim of these assistant masters. At the foot of page 5 there is the following resolution : " The Institute recommends that the schedule for separate boys' schools be made to apply to separate girls' and separate infants' schools." At present there is a different schedule for each class of school. At our meeting it was agreed fairly unanimously that the salaries for the girls' and the infants' should be the same as for the boys' schools. There are very few of these schools in the Dominion ; I think there are only about nine, five being infants', two boys', and two girls'. The women teachers in those schools consider that they are doing exactly the same work as the men in the boys' schools, and that they should get the same pay. Those were two points that I left in order to go on with the scale. The next resolution to which I have to draw your attention is on page 6, at the foot of the table : " The Institute asks that in schools of Grade Vb no second assistant should receive less than a Grade IV salary. Those concerned (there are not many) are mostly women teachers of proved efficiency, who, besides taking charge of the infants' department, exercise a general supervision of the girls of the school and direct their instruction in sewing." There are only eighteen of those women teachers. It can be admitted that they are all experienced teachers. They are responsible for a good deal of the work of the school, and it is felt that in that particular instance an increase to a Grade IV salary would be an improvement. Then there is this resolution : " The Institute considers that the salaries proposed to be paid to pupil-teachers are totally inadequate. They should be paid at least as well as cadets appointed to other branches of the Public Service." This has been brought under public notice frequently for a number of years now, and the Institute is still of opinion that it would be a splendid thing for the service if the pupil-teacher could be paid as well as the cadet in the Post Office, or in the Railways, or one of the other public Departments. 1. Hon. Mr. Allen.] What do you mean in the previous paragraph where you say " less than a Grade IV salary " : do you mean a Grade IV salary of an assistant teacher in the schedule ?—Yes. Mr. Hogben : That ought to be an arabic figure 4. Witness: lam very sorry. With regard to pupil-teachers, we consider that it would be a good thing for the service if pupil-teachers were to receive salaries equal to those paid in other public Departments. It is only necessary to compare the salaries paid to cadets with those paid to the pupilteachers to show that the latter do not get the same treatment at all. For instance, in the Post Office, Clerical Division, in the first year the cadet receives £50, while in his first year the pupilteacher gets only £35. In the second year the Post Office cadet receives £65, the pupil-teacher £45. In the third year £80 as against £55. In the fourth year the cadet receives £96. The pupil-teacher is then in the training college and is receiving £30, and he continues to receive £30 for the second year he is there, while the Post Office official receives £100. In the Professional Branch of the Post Office the pay is very much larger still. In the Railways the cadet receives in the first year £50, in the second £65, the third £80, the fourth £95, and the fifth £110. From this comparison it will be seen that the pupil-teacher certainly does not receive pay equal to that in other Departments. It is the intention of the Department to eliminate the pupil-teacher altogether, and that is gradually being done, but in 1911 we still-had 707 pupil-teachers, and 638 in 1912. I cannot give you the number for this year, but we still have a large number with us, and it will be some considerable time before we see the last of the pupil-teachers and have assistants in their places. As that is the case, and as the pupil-teachership is practically the door to the service, we consider that the pupil-teacher should receive a very much better salary, because in this particular the teaching service is in direct competition with the Civil Service, and the consequence is that suitable material for the making of good teachers, which the country certainly requires, is not coming to us at all, but is going in other directions where the pay is better. I will now ask the Committee to turn to page 7. The Institute proposes that Part V of the Sixth Schedule, with regard to secondary departments of district high schools, should be amended. It proposes to alter the grades of schools slightly and to alter the grades of salaries. The first two grades in the scale in our statement are exactly the same as the two grades in the Bill, but we suggest that the next grade should be from 31 to 55—that a new assistant should be appointed at 31 and another one at 56, instead of, as in the Bill, one at 31 and another at 71. The proposal also is to improve the salaries of assistants in the direction set out in the scale. It means an increase to all the assistants in those schools. 2. Mr. Hogben.] Only to the first and second assistants first and second assistants. . I understand that there are only three district high schools in the Dominion having an average attendance of over 70. Under the proposal of the Institute the average salary in the 31-to-55 school would be £225. Under the Bill it is £210. In the next group —56 to 90—the average salary would be £200, while under the Bill it is £190. The Institute considers that these men and women engaged in this work—mostly university men and women —should receive salaries equal to those paid to the assistants