51

H.-19b.

J. P. FBENGLEY.]

a bad example to the rest of the men, to think that (heir officers should keep their windows shut on an absolutely calm night—decidedly damp, too 45. Did you examine all the hutments that were occupied?—No, just these three, after consultation with the Medical Officers, telling them what I wished to do. 46. These were selected at, random?— Yes, except in the case where I asked to see a hut with fifty men in it. 47. Dr. Martin.] Did you make any recommendation to the medical men that night?—l did. I said there should not be more than fifty men in a hut, I also said that 1 was satisfied that to close up the openings, as had been demonstrated that night, would be very dangerous to the health of the men. 48. The Chairman.] Did you draw special attention to the way in which the sergeant-major's hut was closed up against the air?— Yes, sir; I put it all in writing and reported it to the Defence Department. 49. Dr. Martin.] These names that you have told us of to-day? —Yes. 50. Had you any position at this time to insist upon your recommendations being carried out? —No. I have held a position since 1909 as Sanitary Officer. 51. In what capacity did you visit the camp?—As Deputy Chief Health Officer. 52. Did you go out again to see that your suggestions had been carried out?—No, I have not been out since. 53. Mr. Ferguson.] Your Department does not, but do the military officers or Medical Officers give any lectures upon sanitation to recruits when they come into camp?—No, sir; our officers do not, except those who have been finally attached to the Defence Department. 54. Have you any knowledge as .to whether the medical men attached to the Defence Dopartmcnl do so?— 1 cannot say. The next point, I wish to refer to is the question of the aggregation of the buildings together—that is, tlie distance between the hutments. This matter is dealt with in Burdett's Rules on Hospital Construction. The best, arrangement is what is called the pavilion system —a number of buildings off the main corridor, which we are accustomed to. It lays it down that if of two wards one be the higher the distance between should be the height of the higher, and that is exactly the rule that has been folio-wed in assigning the distances between the hutments —roughly, one and a half times their height. 55. The Chairman.] The object being to allow the free passage of sunlight and air?- —Yes; and that being an established rule for years, I can be emphatic in saying that, with regard to the air-space, it is sufficient between the hutments. 1 would like to see these spaces between the hutments planted with grass to prevent, dust. There is no other standard of which I am aware by which one can say how buildings should be laid off on an area of ground. 56. Dr. Martin.] In hospital pavilions it is quite customary to have temporary urinals between the different pavilions, to be used by the patients at night-time?— That is not so. 57. How does that affect the question ?—I look upon if that the proper way to deal with that matter would be not to alter the distance between the huts, but to make the conditions more sanitary for these temporary urinals. 58. By putting them in the middle of the street?— Yes, or by concreting round them, so that any splashings could be mopped up completely and easily. 59. The Chairman.] They have stone bases for them? —It must be something that will prevent the urine splashing about on the ground and remaining there. Now, I would like to appeal to the Commission to alter the huts, though it will probably appeal to you as a kind of contradiction on my part, My reasons are these : I am a great believer in mental suggestion, and I am quite satisfied that every doctor practises mental suggestion. Tlie suggestion has been made and promulgated right throughout the Dominion that Trentham Camp is nothing more or loss than a death-bed. Most of the criticism has fallen upon the hutments, and it has been argued that, because their erection (or, rather, the first use of them) unfortunately coincides with the outbreak of the epidemic, the hutments are at, fault, Tn consequence it has been suggested to men, to doctors, and to officers that there is something wrong with the Trentham Camp, and particularly with the hutments. I hold that that suggestion is at the present, moment, reducing the resisting-power of the soldiers, doctors, and eveiybody. Some of them are in a sad condition in regard to this epidemic disease. It has been suggested to the men going out there that things are very much worse than they realize, and I do think that these men are in greater danger of contracting the infection than they were before the suggestion was made to them that things -were very bad. I regard the camp as a sanitarily sound camp. The sanitary conditions are by no means defective, and therefore I would appeal to the Commission to alter the huts in some way (though it, may sound like a contradiction), because if they 7 still continue to be occupied by fifty men, then men will always have the idea that they are going into death-beds, which is practically rubbish, since we know that we are putting consumptives into similarly ventilated shelters. 60. It, might be desirable that y 7 ou should deliver lectures on the lines upon which you have addressed us here? —I would be very glad to do so, sir. In plain language, the whole Dominion is in a funk, from politicians right down. Then T would suggest that the number of men to be housed in each hut be reduced from fifty to thirty, and that they be provided with sleepingstretchers, and not asked to sleep on the bare floors. 61. Movable stretchers? —Yes, movable, so that the place can be more readily cleaned out. My objection at the beginning to the men sleeping on stretchers was that they might as well become accustomed to sleeping on the ground. My other objection to wooden stretchers was that it meant more furniture, and therefore more difficulty in cleaning out the huts. 62. If movable stretchers are adopted the men will leave this place, and then have to accustom themselves to sleep on floors or bare ground?— Yes.