H.—l9b.

114

H. A. DE LAUTOUR.

ground been used for previously?—l said previously that the ground should have been examined bacteriologically, because I understand camps had been pitched on the same ground for years previously. It is only within the last twelve months that, the practice of urinating round tents has been forbidden, and that ground has been polluted for many years previously. . 1.00. The Chairman.] Would not the atmospheric conditions have disinfected it, by this time?— Not necessarily. Some germs are very resistant—typhoid germs are especially. 101. Mr, Salmond!] Do you know that this manual 1 have says that a month or two will absolutely make a camp void of such bacilli —that danger of that sort can be removed in a month or two ? —Yes, that is in the case of small camps. 102. The manual says that sites recently occupied by other troops are to be avoided, as possibly the water and soil are polluted, but a month or two will remove all danger of infection from this source? —Yes, that is an expression of opinion of the author of that work. 103. Do you agree with him? —No. 1.04. The Chairman.] Does it not stand to reason? Here camps have been on the same site year after year and we have not heard of anything wrong. What has purged the ground this time?— That is where I should have protected myself by having a bacteriological examination. 105. You are not speaking of personal experience in the matter?—No, 1 am quoting authorities. 106. AVhere is your authority in a book counter to what has been just read?—Tt, is one of the first laws laid down in that manual. Colonel Purdy: May I point out that, the ground was never previously occupied by a camp : that can be proved. The Chairman: Can. you say on your oath that this site of the present camp was not occupied by previous camps? • Colonel Purdy: Yes; the largest number of the Rifle Association ever there was 500. The Chairman : Where did they sleep in camp ? Colonel Purdy: Practically where the V.M.C.A. is. 107. The Chairman (to witness).] What is your book, authority against the authority read by the Solicitor-General that two or three months ought to be sufficient?— The first is the oldestablished practice laid down by Lord AVolseley in his book, published in 1886, page 244, called " The Soldier's Pocket-book." It is the result of experience that soldiers and commanders always avoid old camps. He says, " There are rules which must, not under any circumstances be neglected if the camp is to be permanent, and, indeed, the extent, to which they can be disregarded at any time is to be measured by the exigencies of the moment. If obliged to encamp in a position where you expect to accept battle in a week or a month pitch on ground in advance of the position." 108. Mr. Salmond.] Although the camp was used by a few riflemen last, year you say that is a reason why it should not be occupied again ?—The resistant powers of typhoid* and other bacilli are unknown, and some are very resistant. 109. The Chairman.] Why not plague?— Because it requires the specific plague-germ. If you sow plague you will reap plague : if you sow measles you will reap measles. 110. Mr. Salmond.] You made a very serious statement at the beginning of your evidence when you said that part, of the troops were located in tents on Ihe site of the old latrines? —That is evidenced by the photographs. 111. That is a very serious statement? —Yes. 112. Is your only evidence for that the evidence of Ihe photograph?— That is the only evidence 1 can produce. 113. And you make that statement here on the strength of those photographs? —Yes. 114. Did you make any inquiries? —Yes, I did. 115. From whom? —From the officers there. 116. You said you merely gathered this from the photograph, supplemented by asking an officer what the buildings represented. Did you make any inquiries to verify your statement, that part of the troops were camped on the site of the old latrines?— That was common knowledge with the men there. 117. Were you told by the soldiers at Trentham that they were living in tents on the site of the old latrines? —My 7 son pointed out to me where the latrines had been. He was in the second row. 118. Did he tell you he was living in a tent on the site of the old latrines?—No, he was fortunate. 119. Did he tell you some one else was? —Yes. 120. You say your son told you that part of the Trentham troops were living in tents on ground occupied by the old latrines?— Yes. 121. Did he say that they 7 were living on the site of old latrines?—He did not, say 7 so —-he implied it. 122. Is your son in camp nOw? —No, he is in the Dardanelles. 123. The Chairman.] As far as I can make out, these tents would not be pitched on the site of the old latrines [photographs referred to the regulation there should have been permanent marks to indicate the site of an abandoned latrine. 124. Whose duty would that be? —The Commandant is responsible for all those things. Tt is laid down in the regulations that he has to avoid the possibility of ever pitching a tent over a latrine of any kind. 125. Mr. Salmond.] When you made that observation of a tent being on the site of an old latrine, did you mean those latrines used in previous years or latrines used during the war? — Latrines used during the war.