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H.—l9b.

H. A. DE LAUTOUR.

4. The Chairman!] Eight for every hundred men?— Yes. This trench would last twentyfour hours. The sods are then carefully replaced, and another one dug, and so it goes on day after day. 5. You would want a large area of ground for that purpose for a camp of, say, seven thousand mell '* —They would not, have them in a camp like that : this is for a temporary camp; and I say Ihis camp should have been broken up into smaller camps. You were asking me about my objection to these latrines. Everything was very- good in regard to them, except those oil-cans did not come quite close enough up to the seat. There was too much room for the urine to splash over. The concrete for the floors was excellently suited for the purpose, and could be kept clean. My objection to the system was on account, of the absence of latrine-paper, and the absence, of earth and scoops for the men to cover their excrement, over each time of using. 6. Mr. Skerrett.] Is latrine-paper recommended by the regulations?— Yes; all the authorities recommend that strongly, because if it, is not provided the men pul in half-sheets of newspaper and choke it up. There were tins of chloride of lime in the latrines which the military police used to cover the excrement with, but during the intervals the flies could get al the excrement and then spread themselves over the camp. 7. Is that all you desire to say about, the latrines? —Yes. 8. Now I am going back a little. A period arrived when it was clear that the population of the camp would be increased to seven thousand men ?—Yes. 9. Do you think that some special effort should have been made, and, if so. what effort, or in what direction, to extend the camp or make provision for the accommodation of these extra men?— Certainly provision should have been made. The huts were being built, but, as I have said, they were not, large enough for the number of men put into them. 10. In your opinion, should not, a systematic plan have been effected for the accommodation of this extra number of men—apart, from latrines altogether —I mean in regard to their accommodation generally. What I am suggesting is this : a camp may be well-enough situated and established for three thousand or four thousand men, but, further systematic arrangements might, require to be carried out for seven thousand men. In your opinion, when it was known that the population of the camp would be increased to seven thousand men, should a systematized effort, have been made to rearrange the camp?— Exactly; certainly. 11. Can you give the Commission any assistance on that point?— The whole camp should have been broken up, and all that tent-site obliterated, and not used again for camp purposes. It, had been there too long, and with the seven thousand men coming in the extra number of tents should have been procured and the whole camp spread out or divided up into a number of smaller camps at wide intervals—scattered. The authorities should have gone into the question as to the area of the whole of the ground available for separate camps. Each separate camp should have had its own parade-ground. Taking, say, 200 acres of ground available in the neighbourhood, the different sections should have been spread out, the artillery in one place, and the others each half a mile away in another direction. Then after a month or six weeks these camps could be moved to fresh ground, so that the pollution of the ground would be only small in comparison, and in that way the action of the sun and ihe air would in a few weeks destroy 7 the pollution which had existed. By this means you could keep the whole big area clean. 12. Apparently nothing of that kind was attempted?—No; the ground has been occupied for so many months that it, is supersaturated with the organic matters incidental to camp life. 13. Do they think that the ground available for camping at Trentham is so limited as to preclude the adoption of this means?—No, I do not think so. I do not, know what the area of the ground is, but 1 think sufficient is available for such a purpose as I have described. In fact, there is plenty of ground in that neighbourhood, within a mile or two, for that purpose, leaving (lie headquarters in the present situation. 14. Does the separation of the camps in the manner you have described or suggested involve any considerable cost in connection with the cooking-places and so on?—lt should not. I think that the cooking arrangements', for the purposes of training the Forces, have been altogether in the wrong direction. I mean they have not had opportunities of working their kitchens on the same plan as they will have to adopt at the front. II has been altogether too much like a township, and they have not had the same facilities for training for camp life at the front as they 7 would have had if they had been treated on this other plan. 15. There should be camp kitchens ?—Yes; and each should be self-contained, to learn exactly as they will require to do on the Gallipoli Peninsula. They will not find concreted latrines and that sort of thing at the front. 16. You have heard from the last, witness the extent of the hospital accommodation in the month of March, 1915?— Yes. 1.7. Have you any observations to make upon the necessity for Ihe provision of medical accommodation in such a camp?— Yes; that is one of the faults of our New Zealand system— reliance on civil hospitals. I have always protested against that. 18. Tn y 7 our opinion, ought provision for hospital accommodation to have been made at Trentham : if so, when, and to what, extent?—Tt, should have been provided from tho very start, in proper proportions to the number of men there, and no reliance, except, for very special cases', placed upon the civil hospitals. The cases should have been dealt, with locally, for the purpose not only 7 of treating the patients themselves —having handy treatment for emergencies of all kinds (accidents frequently happen in camp and should be directly attended to) —but also for the instruction of the Medical Officers who had never been in a camp before. These officers would then know how to accommodate themselves, and it would have been good also for the hospital orderlies and nurses. This would have been a good thing, and it would have been of great benefit, to the soldiers themselves, and it could have been worked as it. is done all over the world.