H.—lyj_.

206

[__:. T. J. THACKER.

164. The Chairman.'] According to the evidence we had, the money collected was not to be for the hospital, but for the equipment of the hospital?—No; it was to be at the disposal of the Defence Department to do what it liked with. I can tell you because Dr. Parkes, the last president of the association, told us in Christchurch in February that the Department had guaranteed to put up an up-to-date hospital at Trentham, and the money subscribed by the medical profession would be paid over and subsidized by the Department. AH funds for'such purposes are subsidized by the Government to the extent of 245. to the pound, and Mrs. Luke found the total equipment for this hospital, but it was never used. 165. That is not the evidence we had before us here?—ln that case you heard the wrong version. 166. We have got it from the president of the British Medical Association Council?—ln any case, supposing it were not, it is only a question of £2,000 or £3,000, and it is a stipulated Army regulation that there shall be a hospital at eveiy camp that will supply accommodation for at least twenty-five men per thousand. That is in ordinary circumstances. 167. Mr. Ferguson,.] Where did you get that from? —Out of the military camp text-books. That is an Army regulation. 168. That would not have meant an epidemic? —No; an ordinary base hospital for ordinary sickness, colds, &c.—twenty-five per thousand. 169. Are you aware that the hospital now being built there is not on that scale? —That is the minimum; but instead of that the Defence authorities here assured the public there was sufficient accommodation in the Wellington Hospital to take all the cases that would be required to be taken. The result is that the hospital is surfeited with ordinary cases, and to prove they could not take them they had to take the old people out of the wards to get the ordinary accommodation. The whole of the discord has been caused by there not being any suitable base-hospital accommodation at this camp. 170. It is not a base hospital but a camp hospital?— But if you are going to have a proper system you are bound to have a base hospital. 171. Was the money subscribed for a base hospital or a camp hospital?—lt was subscribed for the Defence Department to use at their will; but it is indispensable to have a base hospital, because you cannot train nurse orderlies or regimental stretcher-bearers unless you have a base hospital. That has been amply exemplified at Gallipoli in the first attack at Gaba Tepe, where the officers and men were shot down because the men got out of the trenches to rescue the officers. If there had been proper orderlies or stretcher-bearers they would have put braziers on their arms and taken the men into shelter until the Ambulance men came and took them to the hospital. 172. Then you say the first Ambulance men were not properly trained? —No; they could not have been properly trained. 173. They might be properly trained without a hospital: you imply they were not properly trained? —No; they could not be trained without having facilities. You cannot make a man a carpenter without tools. Another thing is this : that there are in New Zealand at least two thousand men who are under stature, and as good men as you can find in the country, who are anxious to serve. If the Defence authorities did the proper thing they would take the bantams and make nurse orderlies of them and stretcher-bearers. There are dozens of them who are keen to get away, and they would be just as good stretcher-bearers as those who are bigger. 174. Have you seen the hospital being built at Trentham?—l was not allowed to see it. I was held up. I thought as a member of Parliament I would be allowed to go anywhere, and 1 would not ask for a pass. 175. The Chairman.] We have taken the trouble to get, one wherever we have gone?—l would not subject myself to the indignity of asking for one. 176. The gatekeeper does not know every one who goes there?— But I had my railway parliamentary pass. Well, sir, I think I have told you all 1 wish to. 177. Mr. Gray.] You first, seem to have heard of the complaints of sickness as far back as October or November : is that so?— Yes. 178. Did you get some communication from the camp authorities?— No. 179. Have you at any time, except in the way described, communicated with the camp authorities ?—No. 180. And not made any suggestions to the Director of Medical Services?— No. 181. Or to the Minister of Defence?— Yes. 182. Except in Parliament? —Yes, and out of Parliament. 183. What communications have you addressed to the Minister of Defence?—l have not addressed any direct communications; I have not, written direct, 184. I asked you what communications you have addressed to the Minister of Defence?— None. 185. Or spoken to him?—No; I do not think I have spoken to him in my life except, in the House. 186. Have you ever addressed any communications to the medical authorities in connection with the camp?—No; I was frightened to. 187. You have had experience of Territorial camps?— Not active experience. 188. Only theoretical?—l have always visited them as a spectator. 189. As a citizen? —No, as a highly qualified expert, 190. You have not been there in any official capacity?— Yes, as Surgeon-Captain on the Reserve. 191. Have you attended in an official capacity?—No, I have not 192. You say there were sore throats as far back as October and November in Christchurch, and you told the Commissioners what the authorities should have done in the way of treating the