I.—6a.

24

[m. j. mack.

were run when we were requested to stop the train services and prevent free labour being taken on at Waihi. 3. Mr. Sykes.] Condemned by whom? —By the labour people in this- country —the extreme labour people. Then, sir, came the great congress in Wellington. It was called the United Congress. The whole of the executive attended there. We are not afraid to meet any body of men no matter who they may be, because we know our own limits and we are not going outside those limits. As 1 have said, we attended that conference, but matters did not go as they ought to have gone and we withdrew. Our president at that time made a statement, and that statement was published not only throughout New Zealand, but published in all parts of the world. Magazines and papers throughout the world published that statement, and congratulated the railway men of this country for their common-sense in connection with the matter. Then, sir, we come down to the strike on the waterfront. Again we were urged and asked to show common cause with the men when they went on strike. What was the result ? We earned the gratitude of every man in this country who is engaged in any sort of pursuit for our saneness and action in standing out of that conflict. Now, sir, is it not futile, is it not childish for any body of men to come before this Committee as the engine-drivers have done and present a petition and tell you that we are organizing for the purpose of a strike, and that they are afraid of being dragged at the heels of the A.S.R.S. 1 That statement was made before the waterside workers' strike, but we have proved to the country where we stand; but, sir, they have not proved to the country where they stand. The statement was made by the engine-drivers before the parliamentary Committee that we were organizing for the purpose of a strike, and that they had a " no-strike" clause in their constitution, and that without the engine-drivers the Railways could not go on; but, sir, within a couple of years their own secretary made a statement, when they were treated in such a manner by the Department, "Was it any wonder that men went on strike!" At the time of the last waterside workers' dispute I had a man come to me under these conditions : He said, "Mr. Mack, I am in a difficulty. I am a member of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers; T am told that if that engine comes from Addington to Wellington and is handled by free labour I have not to touch it: what am Itodo ? I have coming to me in a few months 12s. per week retiring-allowance from the Amalgamated Society of Engineers; I have my superannuation coming to me from the Railway Department. If I do as the Amalgamated Society of Engineers direct I shall forfeit my superannuation. If I do not abide by the advice of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants I shall lose my 12s. per week from that society." He said, "What have I got to do?" I said, "Look here, old man, you have been ill; a rest won't do you any harm; take my advice, take a month off on sick-leave and the struggle will then be over." That was my advice to him. Now, sir, I ask you once again if it is reasonable that after the Department have fulfilled their part of the compact, that after we have fulfilled our part of the compact, and after we have shown to the Government and the country our loyalty, to suggest that we are organizing for the purpose of a strike? Such a statement, I think yon will admit, is ridiculous. That is all I have to say, gentlemen. 4. Mr. McDougall.] You have stated that each day's work stands for itself in the workshops for tradesmen only?— No. I say that each day's work stands by itself for overtime in the workshops of the Department. 5. Then what you were quoting applies to the workshops staff as a whole? —Yes, as a whole. 6. Would you mind enumerating the different sections in the workshops?—As far as enumerating them is concerned, I think I can. 7. I do not want them all? —We might as well have them all. There are storemen in the stores department, labourers, watchmen, fitters, turners, boilermakers, springmakers, tinsmiths, blacksmiths, patternmakers, moulders, coppersmiths, trimmers, and wood and iron machinists. I would say here with regard to machinists that the maximum pay for machinists has never been increased for years. They have not participated in the increases that have been given. Those are the men whom the petitioners claim are labourers. Then there are strikers, holders-up, and forgemen. I may have omitted one or two. 8. Do the tradesmen or the unskilled men predominate in the workshops?—l should say the tradesmen predominate, but I cannot say for sure. That is a question you should put to the Department. 9. In your address to the Committee you mentioned the petition that was presented by the tradesmen in 1914. Do you remember asking us the question when we met in conference if that petition was superseded by one you were going to present at the last conference?—No, I have no recollection of that. I may have done so. If I did so it will be in the report of the proceedings before the Committee'. 10. We have it in that report?— Then that is all right—l will admit it. 11. You also mentioned that we classed all those men as labourers. Did we not debate the point before you, and you admitted that they were skilled labourers that we were classing them as?—No ; we have never admitted anything of the sort. 12. I think also that that report will show that we proposed that?—To the best of my knowledge we did not say so, but if I were asked that question now 1 would say that he is more of a mechanic than he is a labourer or a skilled labourer. 13. When you mentioned the number of tradesmen who were in your society did you include in those tradesmen bridge carpenters ?—Yes, certainly. 14. You have said that your action has proved that von are entirely against strikes?— That is quite so. 15. Then what did you mean when, appearing before the Railways Committee and arguing at that time against the engine-drivers, firemen, and cleaners who were applying for recognition —what did you mean by the statement that if recognition were granted the A.S.R.S, would