138

[C. S. HARPER.

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Refrigerating Company has been to be more or less a freezing company—they have bought only to ensure that their own works would be supplied up to their full capacity, and that they would prefer thai exporters would put so much meat into their works as to allow them to run I he business purely as a freezing company; and I think they looked to Sims-Cooper to keep their works al Wanganui employed. 155. Do you think they would have erected these works but for this arrangement, with SimsCooper?—No, I do not think so. Mr. Pearce: But the company have as many buyers out as Sims-Cooper have; 1 know this as a fact. . 156. The You do not think these works would have gone up except tor tins arrangement?—l do not think the company would have put them there unless they were assured of big supplies of stock from some firm. 157. And the erection of these works has enabled Sims-Cooper to operate as far north as Whakatane?—lt has enabled them to increase their operations in. the North Island, where they had been restricted before. 158. We have been told that because of the operations of Sims-Cooper various small companies have practically had to close down?—l presume this refers to Taihape. I do not know much about those works, because we do not buy for them, but they seem to he in a hot corner, with the Auckland competition on the one side and the Wanganui competition on the other. Of course, the company owing the Taihape works are not a buying company, and they rely wholly on other people to put stock into the works for freezing. 159. Do you not think the operations of Sims-Cooper indicate an intention of getting control in that district even at a loss?—I would not say "of obtaining control." 160. Well, of obtaining a very strong control? —Yes, certainly. 161. If they extended their operations throughout New Zealand they, or any trust—it would not be long before they had control? —That is so. 162. Following that there would be small prices to the producer I— Yes, that is the way trusts work. They might proceed by restricting output, and restriction of output is worse than low prices. They restricted output, as you know, in Argentine. 163. You have no knowledge of any rebates being granted lo Sims-Cooper ?—No, we have only surmised that, ' 164. How do you show rebates in your company—are they shown in the ledger accounts of the people or linns who get the rebates?—l do not, know—l am not in close touch with tho book-keeping part of our business—but 1 know they are shown in our own annual balances. 165 Mr Pearce.] Since the war shipping has been handled by the Government, but prior to the war did you not always ship through one company?— Not exactly prior to the war. Some years ago we'worked only through the New Zealand Shipping Company—we had a contract with them. Later we had a contract also with the Shaw-Savill and the Federal companies. 166. None, of these companies have any interest in your business?— No. The reason why we bad a contract, with only one company was that we had then only two works, and it was not necessary for us to have a contract with more than one company. Afterwards all the exporting companies had contracts with the two shipping companies. 167. You had a special freight with the one company?—No, we paid the same freight as everybody else. . 'l 68. No interest in your firm is held by the shipping companies?—No, none whatever. 169 Your firm knows as well as anybody what has occurred in South America: I think you said that your firm had either been bought out or squeezed out?— Yes. T do not think we ever had works' there, but we were interested in works there; at any rate, we got, supplies from there but lam not certain how. It, was long before my time in the company. 170. Have you discussed the question as to whether this same process will not squeeze you out of New Zealand? —Yes, we have. 171 What is your opinion on that?— You want my opinion as to that ( 172. Your linn's opinion?— They are thoroughly against the trust coming here. 173 Do you anticipate being crushed out? —Yes, We do. 174 You' have acknowledged in your evidence that they have increased prices to such a, level that you have made a loss in a large district?—! did not put that down to the trust. _ 175 But if it is continued for two or three years will not that force you out of business?— Yes, thai may be so. It is quite true that we are afraid of the trust. . 176. If'that is so what do you suggest to prevent if from operating m New Zealand?—We have not been able lo suggest anything tangible so far. 177 You are prepared to continue the contest and lose money?—No; but we arc not puttin"- it down to the trust since the war started—We do not consider we have felt, the trust yet 178. I think your evidence showed that Sims-Cooper are making you lose money?— Yes; but, wo do not, say they are the trust, _ 179. The Chainiian.] They are big operators then, and that is the same thing.' Oh, no, if is not, the same thing. . . 1.80 Mr Pearce] Do they not wnd all their meat to Swifts?—No, they do not. As a matter of fact we buy a lot of meat from Sims-Cooper ourselves in England, We sell about two million oarcases a year and we buy ourselves here only about a million carcases. We buy meat from Sims-Cooper 'the New Zealand Refrigerating Com],any, Clarkson's, and other firms. SimsCooper were certainly selling a lot of meat to Swift's, but I do not say for a moment that SimsCooper are the trust. 181 The Chairman.] You have a letter which I understand you are willing to give in evidence'?- Yes, 1 have here a letter of dale 13th March, 191-1. from a gentleman who is a high