1.—7.

172

JAY..L. UAHNEY.

131. No doubt. That, brings me back to my original question. Birt and Co. are looking after the interests of your parent company until such time, I should say, as Armour and Co. (Australasia) (Limited) start there? —I should say, Yes. 132. You know that Birt and Co. have purchased Ihe Ocean Beach works here in NewZealand ?—That is so. 133. You must be convinced of the fact that Birt and Co. are the Australian agents for the parent company, and you know 'that Birt and Co. have purchased the Ocean Beach works in New Zealand : do you still say that it is a mistake when Armour and Co. in their pamphlet of this year state that they have works in New Zealand? — Yea, 1 should think so. 134. It. would take a lot of believing to any one who looks at it from an outside pohit of view?— Yes. I still stick to my original statement that that is a mistake. 135. Mr. T. A. If. Field.} You said that Mr. J. Ogden Armour owns 3,997 shares in your company ?—Yes. .136. How do you reconcile that statement with your statement to Mr. Pearce that Armour and Co. (Australasia) (Limited) is a purely New Zealand company?—We are a purely New Zealand firm. lam one of the directors and Mr. Kingdon is the other. I hold a power of attorney on the shares owned by Mr. J. Ogden Armour. He is not a director of our company. Therefore we are a New Zealand conqjany. 137. The Chairman.] But Mr. Armour owns it?—l do not see how he owns it, The Chairman: He owns all the shares in it but three. 138. Mr. T. A. 11. Field] You still say that it is a purely New Zealand linn?— Yes. 139. You were ready and anxious to give evidence?— Yes. 140. Are you also anxious that your buyers should give evidence? —No. 1 do not see why I should be anxious to have you ask my servants questions regarding what the company is doing. 141. Have you sent your buyers a circular telling them that they must come to the head office before they give evidence? —No; 1 have sent no circular to that effect, nor any circular at all. I have told some of the buyers to tell us if they are called up. 1 had one buyer in the office on Saturday, who said that he had received a notice to appear before this Committee, and that he w as going to pay no attention to it. 142. 'The Chairman.] Which buyer was that?— Donald Sinclair. I said, "You are going to pay attention; you are going up to Wellington to-night." I immediately sat down and wrote to some of the other buyers that if they got notices to appear before the Committee they were to go and advise us. I did want them to go. I certainly did not want others to say that they were not going as Sinclair said that he was not going. There was no circular letter. I wrote only to some of the buyers—l think only four out of about sixteen. 143. Has not some one of your representatives made the statement that Armour and Co. had made a mistake in coming here in their own name?— Was he one of our buyers? 144. No, Ido not mean one of your buyers. Has not one of your representatives made this statement? —Not that I know of. 145. He gave the reason that the farmers were prejudiced against Armour and Co. 'as being connected with the trust? —I know nothing of any such statement. 146. Mr. Kingdon is your manager?— Yes. 147. Were you in agreement with the statement that he made—" Armour and Co. have come here to do business, and we are going to have it no matter what it, costs"? —I do not believe Mr. Kingdon ever made the statement, !48. Dr. Newman.] Can you tell us of any other American firm doing business in New Zealand? —No, sir. 149. Is there such a firm doing business here? —Not that I know of. 150. What shipping companies have you shipped through?—l cannot say. We have nothing to do with the shipping at all. 151. The meat companies do this for you?— Yes. 152. Are you going into the butter and cheese business?—We are going into the trade in all the products of New Zealand —butter, cheese, wool, hides, rabbits. 1 would not say that we will go into the fruit business. These are the things which in normal times we think our London friends will be able to handle in the same way as in the past they have handled them, through the middleman in New Zealand. If we handle these things ourselves we, Armour and Co. of Australasia, will make the commission out of it, instead of some of our friends who have been writing about us in the papers and sending out pamphlets about us—people with whom we used to do business. 153. Is there an Amerioan Meat Trust now. or is it broken up?—No; there is no such thing, and there never was such a thing. 154. But there was the National Packing Company, which centred the interests of several companies ? —Not that I know of. 155. You have never heard of the National Packing Company? —Yes, but I did not know they centred the interests of several companies. 156. Is that company in existence now? —I think not. 157. What nationality are you?— American citizen. 158. Mr. W. If. Field.] Mr. J. Ogden Armour is an American also? —Yes. 159. And you say that he supplies all the money for carrying on your business?—No, sir; the Bank of New Zealand supplies the money. 160. But they supply it on the guarantee of Mr. J. Ogden Armour?— Yes, sir. 161. Therefore it is true that your business is derived from Mr. J. Ogden Armour?— Yes. 162. Mr. J. Ogden Armour lives in Chicago? —Yes. 163. Is it fair to ask you what rate of interest you pay the Bank of New Zealand?—l do not think that is a fair question.