1.—12.

38

L. COCKAYNE.

a talented young woman in Dunedin —the most talented, I suppose, that the University has turned out so far as women are concerned —and she gets this £100, but she cannot even pay a hotel bill with any of it. If she is going to Central Otago she gets her railway fare paid, but she cannot get her hotel bill paid. She went home to do some research work in Nelson, and because she lived there they would not pay her fare there. 2. To Mr. Hornsby.] 1 am not against creating a body such as has been referred to. I am rather a believer in the New Zealand Institute. 1 want to see the New Zealand Institute in a better position in the eyes of the public. I am loyal to what the Institute proposed. I only on pressure gave my private opinion, and my private opinion is rather an objection in regard to detail than that of having any objection to the proposal. Ido not think, for instance, it will be very feasible for men to do certain research work. The poet is born, not made, so is the scientific man. 3. To Dr. A. K. Newman.] I do not, mind how what is proposed is done so long as science benefits. If science benefits, New Zealand benefits. I think the idea in regard to experts or " trade doctors " is good, but whether it will work is another matter. Thomas Hill Easterfield, Professor of Chemistry, Victoria College, examined. (No. 20.) I wish to say a few words about the absolute necessity of doing something whereby the status of science can be improved in the country. There is undoubtedly a lack of appreciation of science. Everybody says he is a believer in science, but if you measure the appreciation of science by the money spent the appreciation is small indeed. The country does not know what it has lost owing to the lack of a spirit of science throughout the country. One cannot help comparing the British Empire with Germany, which undoubtedly has prostituted science, but which has appreciated what science can do. You cannot go to a place the size of Wellington in Germany without finding a number of really expert chemists, and among them you would be able to get really good scientific advice on any branch of chemistry you wanted. The number of scientific chemists in Wellington is exceedingly small, and yet I suppose it is as large as in any other town in New Zealand: That arises from the fact that the people do not know what science can do for them. Some people will say, " No. that is not so. We are always willing to bring scientific men in to give us advice when we get into a corner." The fact that they have got into a corner indicated that they did not appreciate science in the first instance. Science properly applied would have kept them from getting into a corner, and that is what we want. In the scheme for a Board of Science and Industry we urge the desirability of training capable men. If we had been people with an appreciation of science a number of such men would constantly be in training, and something would have been found for them to do, just as we find work and salaries for military men in peace-time. The question will arise as to whether we have-the men in New Zealand fit to train. . There is no doubt about it. New Zealand's scientific men are known throughout the world—Rutherford, Mellor, Maclaren, Maclaurin, Denham, Robertson, and a number of others. We are losing too many of our best science students. This is largely, if not entirely, due to a lack of appreciation of science. The suggestion has just been made that the Science and Art Board might be allowed to do the work, of the proposed Board. It could only do it if the Board were throttled out of existence and reconstituted in a new form, the functions of the old Board to be included in the powers of the new one. The Board of Science and Art only meets, I believe, at the will of a Minister. I contend that the Board we need must be an executive Board dealing with scientific and industrial matters, and dealing with them seriously. The New Zealand Institute is again not the body which should do this work. The New Zealand Institute corresponds roughly to the Royal Society of London, which has for years administered a grant of £3,000 a year, giving £100 or £200 here, and £50 there, to scientific workers to carry on scientific research. It has done this work very well, just as the New Zealand Institute has done its work well, but England has found it necessar}' to establish a Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. I think Mr. Hudson said that the Cawthron Institute would be doing a certain amount of the work of the proposed Board. That institute will have something like £10,000 per annum, and the probability is that to a large extent it will direct its attention to problems of peculiar interest to Nelson and Marlborough. That is, I believe, the idea of the trustees. Consequently, while we welcome the Cawthron Institute, it cannot be said to be taking over the functions of the Board we recommend. Dr. Newman raised the question of trade specialists. Up to the present it has been very difficult for a trade specialist to make a living. If I were to be taken out of my professorship I suppose I could make a living, because gradually first one branch of industry and then another has come to me, so they must have some confidence in me. But if I had come out here and tried to set up in a special line it would have meant starvation. Men have come out here and tried to set up as specialists. I have said to them, " If you can live here for ten or fifteen years and can manage in that time to obtain the confidence of a large number of the manufacturers you will be all right," but they will not face it, and go away. 1. To Dr. A. K. Newman.] I understand the view of a man in business who wants a scientific man to come along to look into the scientific aspect of the business for a few weeks for a payment of £50 or £100. Some of the trades could very well afford it. For instance, there is the flax-milling industry. Before the war we were exporting flax, valued at £750,000 per annum, yet very little scientific research has been carried out in connection with this industry. That trade could very well afford to have scientific experts constantly engaged. If you are asking for specialists who are able to run at a moment's notice to give advice on every subject, I say it is not easy to provide them. There is at present no really good scientific library in New Zealand.