I.—9a.

8

[E. KENNEDY.

46. And you want the unions registered under the Act in order to have the same advantages in the matters of quickness and despatch and uniformity as the unions can get by going outside of the Act ?—-Yes ; and the unions only went outside of the Act for that purpose. Personally, I believe that the workers in this country stand by the; arbitration system. That is my own opinion of the workers —that they will stand by the Act for the settlement of disputes ; but unless the Government will tackle and, handle the, industrial laws of the country action may be taken outside; the Act, and the Act will go. 47. You are acquainted with the industrial history of the Old Country for the past twelve months ? —Yes. 48. Do you know that in probably a majority of instances in which there has been industrial trouble it has been through lack of discipline, hick of organization, and sectionalism prevailing against consolidation ? —Nothing else. That is the start of all the trouble, even in this country. The big trouble here happened because the unions did not have proper control. 49. In other words, consolidation has proved that it actually makes for industrial peace rather than for industrial unrest ?—Yes. 50. Especially when the consolidation is sought under the Arbitration Act ? —Yes. 51. In regard to the last clause in the Bill (clause 8), it provides for bringing certain clubs within the scope of the Act ?—Yes. 52. It would not provide for bringing in gardeners ? —No. 53. I think that is a defect in the Bill ? —The proposal in the Bill of last year was to bring in gardeners, but this was the decision of the Labour Bills Committee on that Bill. 1 was interested in it because I wanted a provision regarding clubs. Even if you give what is wanted we must first file a case against all the clubs and go to the Conciliation Council and the Court and argue the matter out as to the conditions. 54. Do you not think the employers of gardeners ought to be included ?—I have no objection. 55. Mr. Kellett.] Do you not think it is right that they should be; included ? —My own opinion is that the section of the Act should be repealed, and that where there is an award operating and there is anybody working he should be bound by the same conditions as the other fellow. 56. In regard to seeking the right to get a Dominion award for your industry or any other industry the Minister of Labour asked you, would the branch officers of the unions accept the recommendations of the Court 1 Would you make clear to the Committee the method you would adopt in bringing about your Dominion award and advocating it before the Court ? I understood you to say your branch unions would fall in with the suggestion of the executive, and you want to make that clear ?— The branch unions have to obey, and they have nothing to do with the making of agreements. They are there to administer the clause for the engagement of workers and to see that the award is carred out. As far as this industry is concerned there would be no difference as to the conditions, because the question is as to the hours per week, and. they are now fixed by law. Then there is the one day in seven, which I hope will be brought into force, and there is also the matter of wages and the engagement of workers. There is nothing as far as hotels and restaurants are concerned that is different. But supposing it was a Dominion award for a place where the conditions were different, then there can be no argument that the case would go before the Court, and the Court can fix certain conditions. The other day I asked the Court to consolidate an award for the ironworkers of New Zealand, and the Judge said, " Yes, provided you can get them all to agree." Every award in the iron industry in New Zealand is the same —word for word —and there are about twenty of them. When the Court is finished in Auckland the award there will be the same. In Dunedin there was an extra holiday given to a section of workers which was not given to others. I met the employers and said, " Now, for uniformity, let us have the holiday the same," and that was done. 57. I think you missed my point : Your method of appointing representatives from Auckland to the Bluff to decide on what shall be a Dominion award is an important point. Would you give representation from Auckland to the Bluff in framing the award ? —Yes. 58. And when an agreement is come to each and every union has voiced its opinion on what is required ? —Yes, and that is so now. We meet once a year and questions come up, and we say, " Those are the claims we put in, and here is the first decision." Everybody has the chance of considering them right through. 59. Mr. Potter.] In regard to the " one big union " scheme, you want it for administration purposes in the first place and for collective action in the second place ? —What do you mean by " collective action " ? 60. If there is an industrial dispute the unions joined to the one body will come out : if one strikes the lot will come out ?—I thought I had made that clear. We have that power now, and there is nothing in the world to stop it. This Bill is an amendment of the law that provides for penalties, and do you think that I, as a fairly intelligent man, if I thought the organizations were going to be striking organizations, would come here and shackle them ? No, not for a moment. 61. But is it not a fact that I have stated ?—When unions strike in spite of the penalties they have good cause. 62. Has it ever been suggested by labour parties in New Zealand or by anybody connected with labour that there should be one big union of the organizations, and is it not probable that that big union might combine with others and make one bigger union ? —How do you mean ? 63. The Chairman.] A federation of unions ?—Well, let me talk about the meat industry. 64. Mr Potter.] But I asked you about the unions coming under one award, and I say it is probable they may come under the one big union ?—I am not a prophet, and I cannot say what will happen in the future, but, judging by past history, a man would be as old as Methuselah before that would happen. 65. Mr. S. G. Smith.] Is it not a fact that you have a Dominion organization to-day I—Yes.1 —Yes. 66. And a Dominion award ? —Yes, in effect. 67. The salient features of the award are the same ? —Yes. 68. And you want the power of the law behind it ? —Yes. Take the iron industry : we had a Dominion conference first of all in Wellington between the unions and the employers, and we agreed to certain things. We went back to the towns and started! i Auckland, then in turn in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin, asking them to sanction the things we had agreed to round the table in