I.—lob.

HON. SIR W. BUCHANAN.]

41

" Mr. Heney : Do you recall anything in regard to that telegram ? " Mr. Armour : I never happened to have, seen the telegram, but I guess it is likely that happened. " Mr. Heney : Do you remember that the: banks and the Chambers of Commerce and commission men around in the various stockyards centres were; importuned by Armour and Co. and Morris's representatives, and Cudahy and Wilson ? " Mr. Armour : I do not know, Mr. Heney, that it was so, but I wemld think it quite likely to do so. because we woulel do what you e:r any either person woulel elo that you could elo legitimately. We are not asking for investigations, naturally, and 1 see nothing wrong about carrying out any of those provisions." Now, the point I wish the Committee to consider is where the laughter could come in unless there was a suspicion or a certainty in the, minels of the Congress Committee that these telegrams were bogus telegrams emanating from the same source, and that it was necessary to vary the language in order to e'eme-eal the fact. At all events, 1 want to point out to the Committee that this telegram and the- use that, was made of it was ve-ry far from being in accordance with the- lofty ethics professed by Mr. Armour. Now I pass on to the other pomt —namely, as to whe:ther there was or was not any combination between the. packers. I may say that the: most careful perusal of these two books of evidence has convinced me that the evielence- is overwhelming that there was constant oollusion and combination between the packers, of whioh Mi Armour must have been very well aware. 1 will try and give some, conclusive evidence of that. On page 9 appears the following : — " Senator Norris : Mr. Honey, the, Bill that we have: formally before us is known as the Kenelrick Bill. There is pending also in the Inter-State Commerce Committee the- Bill that was submitted, as we understand, by the Federal Trade. Commission to the President, Now, you were connected with the investigation made by the Federal Trade Commission, and we: would like to have you go ahead in your own way, perhaps later referring to these: Bills, by pointing out to us what in your judgment the' e'emditions are, and what remedy ought to be- applied in the, way of legislation, if any. "Mr. Hene:y: I can summarize it by saying that the evidence gathered by the Feeleral Trade Commission convinced me that the five large packers—Armour and Co., Swift and Co., Morris and Co., Wilson and Co. (Inc.), anel Cudahy and Co.—have what is in effect a monopoly erf the meat, business of the Uniteel States, and have it so entrenched by similar control over other meat-producing countries that are' tributary to the- Uniteel States I refer particularly to South America, that, they are able to absolutely overturn the natural law of supply and demand in fixing the prices to the producers as well as in fixing the prie'es tei the' consumers." Then, on page 10 we have the following : - "Senator Norris: Mi-. Heney, when they ship frozen meat in the refrigerator cars and put the local fellows out of business, you say they sold it at less than cost : do you mean at less than cost to them I "Mr. Heney: Oh, frequently, yes. And tei-day they are doing exactly the same thing. II a co-operative establishment or any independent establishment looks as if it might eventually amount to something substantial, Armour, Swift, Cudahy, Meirris, and Wilson will take turns at selling meats below cost in the vicinity of the customers of this concern : erne will sell below e-eist erne week, anel another will sell be-leiw cost another week, anel another one; be-low cost another week, and so on -they lake turns at it, In that way they make it a, losing proposition lor even the raisers of beef, hogs, or sheep to do their own slaughtering through co-operative arrangement. They make' less money, se> that the producer gets less lor his animals than he I'.emld get by selling to the: packers direct; and naturally they have kept down the tendency towards co-operation, and have destroyed those- who diel get into it, or else kept them from becoming of any importance by size. " Senator Norris : And when they put them out of business they put the price up ? " Mr. Heney : Oh, yes, invariably. It eloos not result in any gain to the consumer in the longrun. Not only that, but Swift and Co. adopted the polie-y- and I think it has been the' policy erf all of them in different sections of the country, but it was particularly noticeable in the New England States of killing e>ff local production, say, of sheep, where in New Hampshire I am not so certain about Vermont, but I think Vermont also and Massachusetts, where they raise- sheep, Swift, who gained the great ascendancy in the New England States, probably as a matter of pride, because he had come from there originally, got control of all the New England States, and hi' put the price of mutton so low that he drove most sheep-raisers out of business in the Now England States. " Senator Norris : Are they still out of business ? " Mr. Heney: Yes. " Senator Norris : Well, that meant, elid it not, thai; to that extent there was a, shortage in the supply of those food products ? "Mr. Heney: Certainly; and the idea was not to permit them to be- grown en raised in the vicinity of tin- large cities where Swift and Co. were selling tin's refrigerated meat killed in Chicago, because the sheep-raiser could afford tei sell his meat; to local markets, and they in turn to slaughter them and sell them at a price lower than Swift could slaughter them in Chicage) anel refrigerate them and senel them to New England." Then, at the bottom of page 11 we have the following : "It is admitted shown by the' evidence anel conceded by the packers that fen: many years they elid have the: benefit of railway rebates." This, however, does not concern us very much in Ne:w Zealand, because our railways are under Government control, but it shows they were getting the- advantage, of benefits when they had the power. Continuing the same statement Mr. Heney goes em to say : — " They hail such an economic advantage by the: rebates and refrigerator cars that they gradually forged so far ahead e>f their other competitors that there, was no eiiane'e for the others to catch up ; and then, in 1902, while; there were still a dozen good packing plants in the country, and at a time when

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