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I. 13.

C. ,1. B. NORWOOD.J

12. To start with, the object of the City Council was to supply practically pure milk to the public. Can you tell the Committee whelher the cost of handling by the Council is cheaper or as cheap as when the former vendors of milk supplied it to the city? There was a man named Bodley in a big way, and have you made any comparison in regard to the cost?— Under Mr. Bodice's methods il was dillicult lo arrive at any exact cost. A committee of inquiry was set up to go into the problem. It was not possible the way things were lumped together to know what the various costs were to those people; but I am prepared to say this: that .we would not increase our staff at the station if we pasteurized double the quantity of milk we are doing at present. On the other hand, if we halved it we would uol be able to reduce the cost at the station. I mention that so thai, you wilt see I hat, the chances are all against an individual pasteurizing a small quantity of milk at anything like the same cost as we can pasteurize the whole lot, quite apart from the more highly expert men that we happen to have associated with the pasteurizing as compared with the owner of a milk-round where he is pasteurizing his own milk. 13. Mr. Hockly.] That is to say, there is a minimum staff required independent of the milk going through?— Yes, absolutely. 14. 77(t- Chairman.} The unfortunate I rouble with the City Council is that you started in war-time and cannot make a comparison with normal times?— Yes, that is so. 15. Has the City Council committee considered the question of the supply being made cheaper by running (heir own farm and producing their own milk?— That matter is under consideration now; but as if would cost, something like £2,000,000 to put down a complete plant, with the necessary area required, and 1 suppose approximately seven thousand cows in order to have a reasonable number of stand-bys, it would need not only I he immediate city but a good deal of the surrounding area. I suppose 11,000 or 15,000 acres would be essential to deal with tin- supply, in addition to the tremendous cost for cat lie, so at present we have felt that while we are inquiring into the matter and getting everything down to as fine a point as business men should in regard to matters of policy, no recommendation of that kind is to be brought before the Council at present. 16. Mr. Hawken,] Do you think the dairymen should be paid the same rate of wages as the town dweller?— The proportionate same wage. Having regard to all the circumstances, he should stand, jn the same position. 17. In relation to overtime do you think he should lie paid the same wage?— Well, in the city a man who starts work in the morning on the roads is working pretty hard all the time; but, although 1 am not a farmer, I understand that in farming a man may have a lot to do at about 4 o'clock in the morning, and very little to do until the afternoon when milking starts again, and I think perhaps the regulation of labour would not be quite the same. 18. You \mj your men overtime, of course?— Absolutely. 19. Time and a half? —The award conditions and a little better. My staff is very happy, and there is no difficulty on that point. 20. What would be your average wage?— You are referring to the milk department? 21. Yes, the staff—T mean the men who handle the milk?—l am sorry to say I would nol like to make a Statement which would be a mere jump at it. The statement T will forward to the Committee will include that. 22. Mr. McLeod.] With regard to the question of the utilization of labour for the full time, we know it is stated that fourteen hours a day is not uncommon on farms, but you think it is not as strenuous as city work would be?—l always feel that that which shows in the health of the individual is not at all detrimental. It is not an inhuman thing to inflict. I believe conditions can be brought about on the farm that are quite human, whereas the same conditions in a city would be very improper. 23. Might not that arise by his not having enough time to spoil his health?— Probably there is something in what you say. 24. Mr. I'owdrill,] Would you think that a farmer who owned a farm and managed it but did not do any of the actual work was entitled to claim for his management in assessing the cost of the production of butterfat?—Yes, just in the same sense as the man in the city who does not do much with his hands and yet is a big factor in the success of the business. 25. And also the farmer's wife who is looking after the family of milkers —siie would be entitled to a wage in arriving at the cost of production of butterfat?—Well, nol if the family of milkers are taken into account. Whether they be members of the family or otherwise it does not matter. If something is to be assessed for their time, tlien you cannot do it in two ways. You would not be able to allow the mother something because she fed the employees. 26. That would depend upon whether they got the full wage?—l do nol think it would be sound to take it into consideration at all. I think all those employed must be taken into consideration, but side issues must be limited or else you would be in trouble in arriving at the price. 27. Mr. J. R, Hamilton.] You say you would not be in favour of paying the same overtime to milkers as you would be to a staff in town: do you think they are not entitled to the same? —What I say is with this reservation—that I have never been a milker, and sometimes a city man may get a certain mental picture of it; but I do think thai there should be a difference, because the time between milkings is not that kind of time as exisls where a man works foi eight hours a day. If a man does honestly the usual form of toil provided in the cities it is a constant go all the time, and there is no relaxation ; but there is, 1 understand, a relaxation between the times of milking, and thai ought lo account for something in fixing the hours which the milker should work. 28. If that is correct, how do you account for people rushing into the towns in preference to going on to farms milking?—J think, picture-shows and gaiety pure and simple. 29. Mr. Powdrell,] In working out Ihe cost of production of butterfat, what would you say would be a fair interest lo allow? When a man gets a little money he ceases (o milk, aiid it is the poorer man with the family that goes on Ihe farm and has to be financed on the land, having possibly five, six, and in some instances eleven morlgages on Ihe place. In arriving at the cost of produclion, what would you say would he a fair rale of interest to allow?—I think a man is always entitled, for Ihe use of his money, which is the use of his farm, to at least bank interest. 39. Really, for the average interest he pays on his cows, he should have Ihat slated?— Yes.