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support its renewal. It is only right to admit that in saying that lam guided to a certain extent by what took place during the war period. There was one period of the war, very soon after the war broke out, when New Zealand had ten. thousand men ready to send to the front, and the ships and equipment ready to send them, and information reached us from an official source that the Pacific was not safe. I had an instinct that it was not safe, but that information decided me, so far as it was possible for a Prime Minister to decide, and I appealed, perhaps in strong terms and by strong methods, which I thought justified at the time, to the British Government to send us protection for these ten thousand men before they were sent out into the Pacific, knowing that there was a strong German squadron in those waters. The strength of that squadron was proved by what happened afterwards, when they met two quite good British ships —I will not say battleships or even big battle-cruisers, but they met two strong British warships —and sank them with a loss of one thousand six hundred men. The ships were the " Good Hope " and, I think, the " Monmouth." Mr. Churchill : Yes, that is right. Mr. Massey : They were there, and it was quite impossible to find out, when our transport was ready to sail, where the German squadron was located. I felt that I could not take the responsibility of sending these men off Avithout protection. However, the British Government —I think Mr. Churchill was the head of the Admiralty at that time—acceded to our request, and arrangements were made with Japan to send out a strong battle-cruiser —not a battleship —with 12-in. guns, and a powerful British cruiser, the name of which I have forgotten, but which had been the flagship of the China Squadron. Mr. Churchill : It was the " Minotaur." Mr. Massey : When those two ships came we were perfectly safe. I think our anxiety was justified by the fact —and there are very few men to-day who will not recollect it —that that was the trip upon which the " Sydney " sank the " Emden." By that time, by the way, the Australian ships had joined ours, and in the Indian Ocean there were about twenty-eight ships or more carrying troops totalling probably twenty-eight thousand men. I will say that we were justified in New Zealand in our anxiety for the safety of those men. My support of the AngloJapanese Treaty does not in the very slightest affect the fact that in New Zealand we stand by our right to choose our future fellow-citizens, and it is only fair to say that our legislation on the subject has never been found fault with by either the Japanese or any other race. Personally Ido not think there will be another war during this generation. It is only right to say so, but wars have come up very unexpectedly, and it is not well to leave the necessary preparations until the last moment. I trust that so far as naval defence is concerned —and it is on naval defence that the safety of the Empire of the future rests —we shall not be found unprepared. Position if Japan had been an Enemy in 1914-18. There is just another point arising out of the proposed renewal of the Japanese Treaty, and it is this : Supposing Japan had been on the other side— I do not mean to say that is possible, because there was the treaty, but the treaty as it is to-day did not compel Japan to come into the war in the circumstances in connection with which the war was fought —but supposing Japan had been on the enemy side, one result would have been quite certain, that neither Australia nor New Zealand would have been able to send troops to the front, neither could we have sent food or equipment —equipment for the soldiers and sailors or food for the civil population of Britain : it would not have been possible. These things have all to be remembered in connection with the renewal of the treaty. I am prepared to take the American view into consideration. I do not want to leave any wrong impression on that point. I am quite prepared, as I said, to join with America to prevent war, but I must put the position as it occurs to me and as my experience dictates, and I do not think any apology is necessary for my doing so. There are several points referred to in the address by the Prime Minister which must come up again before the Conference comes to an end, and I was very

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