77

8.—5.

J. CHRISTIE.]

That expresses the views of the Farmers' Union ? —We do not say it expresses the views of the Farmers' Union. It expresses the views of yourself anel Mr. Le:e ?—Yes, and a number of other- freehold farmers. We do neit officially represent the Farmers' Union at Balclutha. You say that you are perfectly satisfied with the land-tax as at present imposed : you do not suggest any change in that ? —As far as we can see it seems all right. The graduated land-tax has a very healthy effect on aggregation. There may be technical points in it that might be changed, but as far as we can see it seems all right. Mr. Shirtcliffe.] I would like to ask you what area eif land you are farming ?—1,500 acres. About what is the capital or unimproved value of the land ?—I have not the figures with me. Have you no idea of the Government valuation ? —lt varies. Some of it is suburban land which 1 do not farm ; it is probably from about £20 to £30 an acre. Is it all freehold ? —Yes, with the exception of 260 acres, which my son has, in Woodlands. It is probably about £30,000 ?—About £22,000. What tax do you pay now ?—Just on £200 a year. Apart from local rates what tax do you pay ? —Just on £100. Heiw is that calculated ? —I do not know how it is arrived at, but I think it is on the unimproved value, I paid a good deal more before. That works out at about 5 per cent, of its value ? —Roughly, a little less. You [iay no income-tax ?—Not this year. I never can make enough —more than I can spend on the land. Your income goes back into the improvement of the land ? —Yes. And does your valuation go up ? —Possibly it will shortly. Wo are going in for costly draining. I consider that any freehold farmer can get rid of his income in that way. You would be able to pay on a larger income ?—I may, but I have yet to learn that you will ever make hard cash out of farming. You can always find holes to put it in. Take a business with £22,000 invested in it, the same: capital as is invested in your farm ? —That is only half, for we have the stock besides. And have you £20,000 worth of stock ? —Yes. Take a trading concern with £30,000 invested in it, that trading concern has tei pay land-tax in the same way as you do, and also income-tax. Now, do you think that is as it should be ? —I should imagine: that there is quite a difference. They do not farm the land. I could not express an opinion on the question whether that is equitable or not. Do you see the point ? You with £30,000 invested, upon which you are making your income, do not pay income-tax and only £100 a year land-tax, while another man with £30,000 invested in a business, making perhaps £2,000 a year, has to pay land-tax and also income-tax on the graduated scale ?—What does a business man keep) his land for ? Warehouses and offices, and so forth, in the city where the valuations are high ? —But he, does not plough, and sow and harrow it. No ; but lam trying to get your view as to the principle involved. You agree that taxation to be just must be, applicable to every one ? —Before I could answer that question I would have to know the whole circumstances. J do not know their point of view although I know my own. I. do not want to drag from you any views that are contrary to your opinion, but 1 want your opinion as to whether taxation should be universal in its application ? —Certainly ; I do not think any one can say otherwise. Does it not follow that for the tax to be universal in its application the income-tax should apply to every one who earns an income ? —As far as 1 am personally concerned, I think that is quite all right. I only want your views. Your evidence has been clearly placed before us, but I wanted your views as to the principle involved. You say that if the weirking freehold fanner were taxed on income as well as em land it would be: a tax on his thrift and industry, and that the thrifty and industrious would pay and the indolent would escape. Does not that apply to all sections of the community who have to pay income-tax ? Does not income-tax weigh heavily on all sections of the community ? — Supposing you had £6,000 invested at 5 per cent., it would bring you an income of £300, which would be exempted. If you had the same £6,000 invested in land you would be paying £120 in local rates. Do you see the difference ? If I choose to realize on the investment I would probably have an income of £400 0r.£500 a year, but .1 would pay on emly perhaps £100, and would get exemption on £300 ; but if I put £6,000 into lanel anel farm it, and spend another £1,000 a year in the operation, I have expenses and risks of bad crops. In that ease, are yen not continually improving your land and building up an aelded value to your land which will be realized in the future ? Your land is worth to-day £22,000, and, as you are continually improving it, in ten or fifteen years it may be worth double that. You hope it will be worth double ? —lt is a question eif whether wool and mutton keep up. The moment the price of them drops the: value of your land drops. It is emly worth what you can take out of it. At any rate, the remark in your evidence to which I referred applies to every one who pays income-tax, that it is a tax en thrift and industry, anel that it does not specially apply to farmers ? —(No answer.) Mr. Begg ] Is your experience of land-valuation that valuations are satisfactory : you have to pay land-tax on the unimproved value ? —I understand so. In those valuations do you get full value for your improvements ? —1 would scarcely say that we do. Do you think it is possible to arrive at the value of the improvements ?—No, I do not think you can. There is so much buried out of sight that unless you saw the drainage and so forth it would