A.—6a

79

to build railways, but I can think of another 250 miles which are in course of construction now and which are very urgently required. We talk about land-se;ttleinent in a free, and easy way, and we forget that it is not of the slightest use putting settlers on the holdings unless you give them access to the holdings. They must have ingress and egress. We try to keep abreast of settlement in this way. I said, I believe, we have at least 250 miles of railways to complete, and the work is going on now. We have; approximately six thousand men employed in public works regularly; the number hardly varies from month to month. Perhaps for a few weeks at Christmas men go for a holiday and the number is reduced for the time being, or in a bad winter, when work is scarce and we have unemployment, we get more, and they are put on public, works. In addition to the railways, there is the roading question itself. The buileling of roads in New Zealand was commenced about sixty years ago, and we have just an ordinary macadamized road, sometimes not always a macadamized road —simply broken metal or gravel —and up to a certain point there was nothing very seriously wrong. There have been tremendous developments and along comes the advent of the motor-lorry. Instead of the horse-wagon of perhaps 2 tons axle-load, along comes the motor-lorry carrying 10, 12, or 15 tons, and while the macadam road will stand that sort of thing in a fairly dry summer, what about the winter ? When bad weather in the winter comes the road goes to pieces, and lam sorry to have to admit that the roads last winter suffered badly. In some places we have had to pull off motor-lorries for the time being. There woulel not be a trace of the road left if we had not done that. They have to be withdrawn in the winter months, but only temporarily. We have to take up a great roading scheme at once ; we cannot, wait for it, and 1 do not think it is any use to go in for anything else; but, concrete roads, anel they are exceedingly expensive. But the position has to be faced. We, have had this matter before Parliament on several occasions, and Parliament has agreed to legislation, but legislation is only a very small part of what is required for roadmaking schemes. We have to find the money, and. we have to find the labour. It the President would give us some ielea of what the British Government propose to do in the way of assisting and developing the countries of the Empire with regard to interest, then I could tell him pretty well what my country would do. I think we are paying 4| per cent., that is the net rate we have be;en paying, including the cost of raising the money, stamp duties, anel so on. I think that is about it. If for a period of, say, three or five years the Government come along and say, "We will assist you to the extent of half this interest or until the work which is being proceeded with becomes interest earning," I can say what we shall be, able to do. Something of the sort will be necessary. We need to know exactly what we are doing, and so far as I am concerned I say unreservedly I believe we can make a great deal of use of this proposal and do a great deal of good with it, and indirectly a great deal of good would come to Britain itself. With regard to migrants, it is the, case, I am sorry to say, that you have more people in this country than the country can keep." That is the position you arc up against, and you have to get rid of some of your population, and some parts of the Empire are undoubtedly places to which these people ought to go. If we can find employment for a few thousand in each of our countries, if we can find employment for a few thousand men extra on these works of which we are thinking and speaking, then we; can come along to Great Britain and say, " We want three thousand or four thousand more next year," and you would be relieved to that extent. I know it is not a very great deal compared with the difficulty with which you are, faced, but every man who goes from this country to the oversea countries of the Empire helps to relieve the pressure and solve the problem, and I believe it is well worth thinking out. I think it is the most beneficial proposal that has been placed before this Conference so far as developing countries are concerned, and we arc all developing. The surface of the oversea countries of the Empire has only been scratched. We, have only got to the fringe of farming, with not one farm in twenty complete. We are just taking what nature produces for us, and the markets of Britain and other places are prepared to take our produce, but without an increase of production we cannot do any good in our own countries or in Britain. Concrete Pioposals to be discussed at a Later Stage. The. Chairman : Might I say this now ? As I saiel, Mr. Massey, I was giving the broad outline of the scheme, and 1 think it is plain that you cannot lay down a hard-and-fast rule as to what interest is going to be paid in any given case, the interest must necessarily vary, but when we come to the end of this discussion probably those of us who think we can take advantage usefully of this will be able in a much smaller body to go into it in detail* We could, in discussion with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and myself, go into the thing in greater detail and bring back a concrete scheme. Auckland Hydro-electric Scheme. Mr. Massey : Here is one instance that occurs to me. In New Zealand we are just about commencing a big hydro-electric scheme for the purpose; of supplying Aucklanel City and part of the Auckland District with electricity. Ido not know that the work has gone on except preparation in making roads, the roads over which the machinery will be carted and roads for the men at work. This work is estimated to cost certainly not less than a million and a half. It will require a dam, and where a dam is required it makes the production of hydro-electricity much more costly than it otherwise would be. In many places there are natural dams, lakes from which the supply of water can be taken. In this case there;-is a river with plenty of water, but we have to build a dam over 100 ft. high in order to get the water-supply that is wanted. Now, you will come along and say to us, finish this in about four years —I do not think it can be finished under —and we will help you with half the interest that the capital will cost until you get a return from the work itself. In the same way I mentioned yesterday tenders are now being invited. We do not do our railway work by contract work—not as contracts are understood in Britain ; it is done by piecework- —that is, co-operative