H. —44A.

[j. STARK.

126. You said that it was, in your opinion, due to the price-cutting ? —Yes, that is the direct effect of price-cutting. 127. Now, we will go back. Previously your preparation was the substitute for something else ; is that not so ? —That is a hard question to answer, because I do not know what everybody used before Kolynos came on to the market. I submit that our dentifrice, as a consequence of its excellence, developed a public demand. 128. Through its excellence ? —Yes. 129. You do not suggest that you got on to the market because the previous article was not a cutting line —you got there through its excellence ? —That is so. 130. May not that be a very good reason why your article is being supplanted at the present time ? —I would not like to say that. Ido not think the public consider there is any preparation that is better than Kolynos. 131. If you go to the pictures you will see, according to the advertisements on the screen and in the programmes, that there are some that are as good ? —Many other lines are advertised. 132. They may not be better in quality, but we are told they are as good. Where is this preparation manufactured ?—ln England. 133. Have you any knowledge of the profits of the manufacturer ? —None at all. 134. They are not obtainable ?—Not to us. 135. Nobody could obtain them in New Zealand ? —I do not think so. 136. Mr. Walker.\ When you commenced to put Kolynos on the market, about the year 1910 or 1912, you created a favourable impression by sending out circulars, and also by sending out a limited amount of samples ?—Yes. 137. As a result of that you gained favour with the public ? —Yes. 138. That is going back a good many years now ? —Yes. 139. Can you be quite certain that the agents, &c., have not changed, so to speak, their loves ? They do it after a series of years. However, you have told us that the recommendation of the doctors and chemists has had an important effect on your article ?—Yes. 140. You would be the last man they would tell if they decided to change their views ?—I have got evidence to the contrary. We evidently must have the continued support of these men because we have created a professional department. 141. You have no evidence that they have not cast a favourable eye on some other line ? —We cannot keep track of what they are doing and as to what they are recommending. 142. Mr. Myers.] You were asked about the question of cutting : you have told us that cutting was intense in Dunedin % —Yes. 143. You were asked by Mr. Kennedy and Mr. O'Leary what was the reason, and what could have been the reason for the decrease in the sales throughout New Zealand ?—Yes. 144. Is it your suggestion that the chemists —I do not mean they all refused—in different parts of New Zealand refused to stock Kolynos because of the cutting that was going on ?—Yes. 145. Has there been during the last three or four years any well-advertised dentifrice, that has come on the market that you know of ? —I cannot say that there has been. Mention has been made of one line. 146. That is Gibbs's dentifrice. Is that advertised to anything like the same extent as Kolynos ? —I do not think so. 147. Let us assume that a certain amount of Gibbs's dentifrice has been sold : do you know some of the people who refused to take Kolynos bv reason of its being cut stocking Gibbs's dentifrice because it was not cut ?—I have knowledge to that effect. 148. So that accounts, in your opinion, for Gibbs's dentifrice being on the market ? —Yes. 149. Precisely. Is that the way outside lines do come on to the market ?—Yes. 150. Through the cutting of some particular proprietary line to the detriment of that proprietary line ?—-That is so. 151. You know Gibbs's dentifrice, do you not ? —Yes. 152. If that is not a cut line the chemists can sell it at a better price than they can sell Kolynos when Kolynos is being cut by other people I—That1 —That is so. 153. You were asked by Mr. Kennedy, I think, whether the reduction in Kolynos by cutting is not an advantage to the consumer who purchases it at the cut price, and you said that it was. I want to put this question to you : Is it an advantage to the consumer if he has to make up by an increased profit on some other line the reduction in profit of Kolynos ? —I think not, because he has to contribute his profit to the shop on other lines. 154. Mr. Reardon.] I understand that you are one of the executive officers of the P.A.T.A. ? — No, sir, ; I am a committeeman. 155. I suppose that your deliberations are not subject to your Loard of directors?— No. 156. You can come to any decision that you like ? —ln regard to the P.A.T.A. generally ? 157. Yes ? —Our entry into the P.A.T.A. system is with the permission of our chief executive officer and general manager, who is also chairman of one of the committees. 158. Before you went into it you looked at the operations elsewhere ? —We have known in the drug trade of its existence in England for twenty years, and it is not unfamiliar to us as wholesale druggists. 159. In Australia ? —They have it in force there. 160. Have you had in mind the desire to go as far as they have gone in Australia ? —I am not a member of the executive ; the executive is the governing body. I am only a member of the provincial committee in Dunedin,

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