11

A—4b.

The Chairman : The question is whether it has been made a matter of complaint or an objection to the Government of New Zealand or the Parliament of New Zealand ? My recollection is that it was not referred to in Mr. Nelson's evidence before the Joint Committee.. Mr. Baxter : May the point be left over until such time as I can obtain fuller particulars on the matter ? The Chairman : By all means. We have no desire to limit you, but we do not want to discuss matters that; are not of any assistance to us in the report. Mr. Baxter : Certainly, sir. Complaints were certainly made regarding the Faipule's action, and there will be considerable evidence on that. The evidence of the experts and of other Natives will show what the Faipule is in the fa'a-Samoa, and what his duties were —he was the representative of the body that sent him there. The Chairman : My attention has been drawn by the Sectetary of the Commission to the Samoan report which formed part of the proceedings of the Citizens Committee. Paragraph son page 16 of A.-4b says, " The new land law which the Administrator is endeavouring to bring into effect is fraught with much danger, and is undoubtedly causing much trouble. Protests are heard on every side, and it is well worth the while of the author of it to seriously consider the pros and cons of the measure before putting it into operation." It is still in the air, and we cannot give directions as to the future administration of Samoa. Mr. Baxter : No, sir. The Chairman : We will leave the matter as it stands. Mr. Baxter: The only way I proposed to bring it in was that it does tend to show that Native administration has been such that the complaints against the Native administration are justified. If it can be shown that the Native administration has followed along a course of not sufficiently educating the Natives and of not seeking the agreement of the Natives themselves as apart from the Faipules, then I submit it would come in and would be used for that purpose, and would be an example of a wrong policy being used. So far as the Faipules are concerned it will be shown that theFono or the Faipules themselves are dominating their districts through the District Councils, the composition of which is set forth in the Native regulations. It will be shown that they are not working satisfactorily in that they do not seek the opinion of the matais and the elite of the districts, which is repugnant to the Samoan system. It will also be shown that the Faipules do not ascertain the opinions of their districts before they come to the Fono for the purpose of advising His Excellency as to the feelings and opinions of the Natives on certain matters. The Act does show that they are nominated by the Administrator. The expert evidence will show that a Faipule is a representative who should be selected by the wish of the whole of the Natives. It is intended to show that in some districts the consent of the Natives has never been sought. As I say, the Faipule has been nominated, and even though his district is dissatisfied with him he still remains in the Fono, and there is no chance of getting him removed. The Chairman : The conditions of appointment are imposed and regulated by statute, and those conditions must be carried out by the Administrator. Mr. Baxter : That is just where my case will be directed. The Chairman : But you have not said so so far. Mr. Baxter : It will be shown that they are appointed by the Administrator, and that the opinion of the district has not been sought before the Faipule is nominated by the Administrator, as has been stated by the Administrator. It will be shown also that the position is very unsatisfactory in that persons have tried to bring forward complaints, but these complaints must come through the Faipule, and if the Faipule refuses to bring them forward then they are unable to be brought before the Secretary to the Native Affairs Department, or before the Administrator, because they have not come through the proper channel, and they are told to go back and send them through the Faipules. The Chairman : Are not the Faipules bound to send forward the complaints ? If a complaint is made is not the Faipule bound to send it on to the Secretary of the Native Affairs Department ? Mr. Baxter : He should do so, but my instructions are that he does not, and if he does not it is no use complaining about it. There are in the districts, besides other officials, Faamasinos, who might be characterized as Native Judges—that is, they are called Native Judges, but it is more the idea of a Justice of the Peace. The Chairman : The local Magistrate. Mr. Baxter: Yes, a sort of local Magistrate. lam instructed that the Faipules interfere with these local Magistrates in the exercise of their duties —that is to say, they have insisted upon sitting with these local Magistrates, and they have directed them as to what sentence they are to give. lam also instructed to say that in many cases where the Faipule makes a complaint against a chief and requests that he be banished the Faipule is the sole person who inquiries into the advisability or otherwise of the banishment, and in many cases it has been as a result of purely personal matters. Mr. Meredith: In matters such as these I think my friend should give me some specific details as to the particular instances he has in mind. The Chairman : Mr. Baxter has told us that he cannot give us the particulars. Mr. Meredith : Where there have been individual cases of Faipules doing it, that should be within their knowledge now. I would like to obtain particulars of those instances. The Chairman : Can you state an individual case, Mr. Baxter ? Mr. Baxter: I cannot state an individial case at the moment. It will be some time before Native affairs will come before the committee, and perhaps the evidence will be cleaned up by that time. Judge MacQormick: The only ground for complaint against the Administration is that it refused to take notice of such instances. Mr Baxter: Yes.