6 —A. 48.

A. —4b.

Where did your figures come from ? —From the reports, as has been previously stated—the Fijian blue-book, the estimates of Samoa, and the Tongan estimates. The Minister in his letter says that the local Police and Prisons Department in Samoa costs £7,750 and the same services in Fiji cost £26,484. Can you explain that difference ?—I cannot explain that difference from the records which I had before me at the time, and from which I took these figures. The figures in this report lam sure are correct. The Minister may have had the Fijian report of a later year. We only had at the time a report of Fiji for 1925. Agriculture : any remarks ?—No, except the statements that are here. As far as you are personally concerned you have no complaint ?—None at all. What about the Chinese Department ?—That appears to be expensive compared with the management of the Labour Department in Fiji. In other words, you say that the comparison of these figures shows that the administration of the Labour Department in Samoa is too expensive ?—Yes, too expensive. Do you specify it in any particular aspect or just generally ?—Generally. Any remarks on public works ?—No, I have not. You refer at the bottom to both the Survey Department and the Public Works Department. That refers to the whole lot ?—No, to the Survey Department. The Engineer-in-Charge of the Public Works Department also receives the sum of £220 per annum as Chief Surveyor and Commissioner of Lands. The cost of this Department is £2,400. The committee believes this to be a necessary expense to the islands, laying out boundaries in various districts, &c. Do you also mean to convey the meaning that you also think the expenditure of £2,400 is reasonable ?—Yes. What about the Public Works Department ? —ln the Public Works Department there seems to be a larger amount paid in salaries than what is expended actually in public works. 1 think we have made some remark about that, but we have not got full information. But from the estimates before us we considered that a sum of £4,962 paid in wages was approximately half the estimated sum of maintenance and improvements. Am I entitled to gather from that, Mr. Gurr, that the committee complains that the salaries are too high for the amount of work done ?—Y es. Education : of course, it is admitted that it is an essential expense, but do you consider it too expensive ? —Personally I do not think any sum too expensive for the education of the people, but I think it might be applied differently. In what different way ?—The mission schools for many years have been teaching the children of Samoa, have been giving them an elementary education, and more money than is at present applied may be applied to the missions to assist them and to reduco several of the higher-grade schools where the higher-paid schoolmasters are employed. Do you consider the missions capable of educating the Samoans ?—The missions are capable and have been educating them so that every Samoan of five years and upwards can read, write, and do simple calculations quite sufficient for his needs. He can calculate the amount he should receive in copra, even when fractions are used. They can keep accurate figures concerning the amount due to them in wages although working only fractions of days. I do not think it is necessary to give the Samoans advanced or secondary education, which it is proposed to give them. Why not, Mr. Gurr ? —They would not be able to apply the higher education to the ordinary avocations in after-life when they are confined to their own villages and lands. Do you consider the missionaries as capable of training the Samoans as the school teachers who are brought in ?—For the elementary education, yes. Medical Department: Do you or do you not consider the Medical Department too expensive ? — Yes, it is expensive with respect to one officer, the Chief Medical Officer. I understand he is employed chiefly as a statistician, and that a lower-paid officer might do that in conjunction with the other Medical Officers. I notice in the figures which you have made out that the visiting doctors at the three towns of Levuka, Lautoka, and Suva, in Fiji, are all private practitioners also ? —Yes, I understand that they are. Well, there are no private practitioners here ? —No. Judge MacCormick.] How many Assistant Medical Officers are there here ?—Three on the estimates, at £888 each. Under the Chief Medical Officer there is the Resident Medical Officer and two District Medical Officers, and three Assistant Medical Officers. Mr. Baxter.] These three officers at £888 are all Assistant Medical Officers ? —Yes. These figures are taken from the Samoan estimates ? —Yes. Is there any reason why a subsidized medical man should not be established instead of a full-time man ? —There is no reason. If a medical man were in private practice the people would pay him fees. I believe they pay fees now to the Medical Officer attending. You do not mean the doctor gets that himself ? —Ob no, it goes into the funds of the Government, but there is a charge made. You say that " In addition to the expenses already enumerated there are other charges of a public nature which, from their respective amounts and objects, induce an inquiry by the citizens." What is the nature of the inquiry you wish to have regarding this ? —As far as allowances and expenses to and from overseas, £1,800. The question has been raised by the committee : what is their complaint about that ? —The complaint is that those who are employed from New Zealand in Samoa have their fares and allowances whilst travelling between New Zealand and here, and also when they are on furlough. That is the

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