A 4b.

Do you consider it was proper to take the responsibility of publishing that to the Samoans when the simplest inquiry of the Administration would have settled the matter ? —I did not think it was necessary to ask any one. I took the statements as they were given to me, and I considered them reliable. The members of the Legislative Council and Mr. Cobcroft, a member of the committee, and I, just looked upon it as a loan of £100,000. I have never made any inquiries as to what was done with it, and that is the object of this report it was to be presented to the Minister when he came so that we might get the information that we wanted. How long would it have taken to have walked to the office and asked ? —lt would not have taken long. You preferred to let that go out. In regard to some of the figures in your report on page 11, under the heading " Medical Department," you have made a comparison between Samoa and Fiji ? —Yes. You have said the appropriation for the Medical Department in Fiji, not including the Leper Station, is about £16,000, and you have said the full appropriation for Samoa is £25,000 : personal emoluments £13,690 ?—Yes, that is the inference drawn from that. Turn up the Fiji blue-book from which you get these figures. As you know, Mr. Gurr, the heading " Medical Department of Samoa " includes all the medical services and the hospitals ? —That is so. So that £25,000 charge for Samoa includes all the medical services, including hospitals ? —Yes. You have not pointed that out here in this report ? —I do not think the £25,000 includes hospitals. The cost of maintaining hospitals ?—Yes. The Chairman : It does fairly appear that the £25,000 includes the cost of carrying on the hospitals. Mr. Meredith.] Now, what figures are included in that £16,000 from Fiji ? That is the figure you compare with the Samoan £25,000. Probably you will find it on page 60 of the Fiji blue-book ?—■ There are no hospital expenses in that. I presume the hospital expenses are in the Medical Department. On page 98 the amount of salaries paid is £7,700 ; on page 99, £3,180; page 100, £4,144 ; page 101, £939, before we come to the cost of the Leper Station ? —Yes, these figures total £15,965, and for the purpose of speaking in round numbers we have taken it at £16,000. I think those, Mr. Gurr, are merely personal salaries ?—They are. You did not notice it before ?—The last time I saw this report was last December—until last night when it was handed to me. Would you mind turning to page 60 of the same blue-book. Now, if you look at the end of the column " Medical Department " you will find the total £18,916, and hospitals and asylums £29,604, a total of £48,520. Those two institutions are the same as the Samoan institutions costing £25,000 ? —That is so. Well, to say the least of it, the figures in your report are somewhat misleading ? —I do not think so. We have specified here personal emoluments, £13,690; other charges, £11,310. Reference is made to the proportion of the Medical Department in Fiji, not including the Leper Station, at about £16,000, to show a comparison of the cost of the emoluments in Fiji, £16,000, as compared with £13,690 in Samoa. What are the personal emoluments of the Medical Department and the hospital in Fiji ? It reads £13,873 for hospital and £7,603 for asylums, a total of £21,476. Have you noticed that page before ? —I must have noticed it. I cannot say that I did not notice it. We will examine one or two other items. In regard to education, you have not stated the amount expended in Fiji on education ? —No. You have shown the total Samoan expenditure as £9,700 in salaries and other charges ? —Yes. Why did you not make a comparison between Samoa and Fiji ?—I did not think it was necessary in the case of the Education Department. Did you only choose those figures for comparison which you thought would be unfavourable to Samoa ?—Not at all. Well, 1 suggest in that case you might have shown them ?—We only desire to show the amount of the salaries paid in the Medical Department as compared to Samoa. You did not think it worth while to show the total cost in Fiji ?—We had no complaint to make. In order to invoke an inquiry we made a comparison between the salaries paid here and Fiji. We will not go into it any further. The Public Works Department —you make a distinct complaint there : " From this it appears that a maintenance and improvement account of £9,398 (estimated) requires an expenditure in salaries for the administration of the Public Works Department of £4,962, or approximately about half the estimated sum of maintenance and improvements " ? —That is an inference. Is the execution of that maintenance work the only work done by the officers of the Public Works Department ?—One of those officers is in charge of the Lands and Survey Department, as stated here. The Chairman : It is maintenance and improvement. What he means by " improvements "is new work. Mr. Meredith.\ That amount of £9,000 includes maintenance work and new work to be done out of the revenue for the year other than loan-money ? —Yes. Do you understand that all the work the officers controlled would be £9,000 —Yes, I understand that from the figures. Do you know what works were going on during that period ?— 1 had an idea of some of them. Do you know what works were going on out of loan expenditure ? You have lived here for years ? —I did not inquire as to what appropriation this money was from. I took the figures as they were. Where did you take those figures from ? —From the estimates, as I have stated.

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