A.—4b.

Have you seen this official History of Eastern Samoa, Mr. Gurr [file handed to Mr. Gurr for his inspection] ?—Yes. I wish to refer you to this. On page 59 it says : " 4th August, 1900 —E. W. Gurr, of Apia, was appointed by the Commandant as Secretary to the Commandant; to also act as Judge and legal adviser. He was a barrister practising before the Supreme Court of Samoa, and was familiar with the Samoan language. His wife was a daughter of Seumanutafa, the high chief who rendered such valuable assistance to our sailors at the time of the hurricane at Apia, 1889. He had been Natives' advocate before the Land Commission, and was familiar with all land-titles in Tutuila and Samoa. He was dismissed in 1908 for malfeasance in office." Do you take any exception to that report by Governor Bryan ? —I take no exception except to the date of the appointment. The rest of it you take no exception to ? —No. Mr. Baxter.] These reports, I believe, were put into Samoan after they were prepared, Mr. Gurr : is that so ? —Yes. The finished report was put into Samoan also, was it not ?—Yes. That is a proper copy of the Samoan translation of the report, is it not I would say so. This statement is taken from the Samoan translation : "If this statement as now made by the committee is not correct, the committee will withdraw it." This refers to the £100,000 owing to New Zealand. It was definitely stated in the Samoan copy that there was a possibility of it being wrong, and that you would withdraw it if it was found to be wrong ? —Yes. The Samoan translation continues, " The committee is seeking an explanation concerning the investments of Government money, because it is the right and true desire of all people of the Government to understand clearly concerning Government money." Have any Samoans been along to see you regarding this £100,000, Mr. Gurr, or have they not ? —No. Judge MaeCormick.] The Committee have not taken any steps to withdraw the statement in that report, although you now know that it is incorrect ? —We are quite prepared, and have been ready at any time, to withdraw when mistakes have been found. If you know it, the rest of the committee ought to know it ? —lt is only recently that I have learnt it. Mr. Massey had made a statement in answer to a question in the House as to the security for this £100,000, and he stated that the Crown Estates would be security for the £100,000. Mr. Baxter.] You suggested, in answer to a question by Mr. Meredith, that these reports were distributed to the Samoans : were they actually distributed to the Samoans generally in printed or typewritten form ? —To the Samoan members of the committee. Now, Mr. Gurr, leaving aside your own figures, which it is evident are not suited for the purpose for which Mr. Meredith requires them, let us take Mr. Meredith's own figures and work out something on them. First of all, take the Medical Department. Mr. Meredith tells us that the Fiji figure is £48,500 and the Samoan figure is £25,000 ; I believe that you have worked out the cost per head on the population, taking a population of 170,000 in Fiji and 40,000 in Samoa, which gives you the cost per head for Fiji of ? —ss. Bd. And Samoa ? —l2s. 6d. per head. The Post and Telegraph Department, Fiji; the figures that were given to us in Court yesterday were £27,688 —you have taken it at £28,000 ? —Yes. That would be 3s. 3d. per head in Fiji. And Samoa ? —Taking the figure of £8,050 in connection with the Post Office and Radio Office, it would be 4s. per head. Taking the Police and Prisons Department ? —ln Samoa, taking the figure of £7,750, as is in the estimates, that would be 3s. l|d. In Fiji, the amount for the Police Department is £26,484, which would work out at 3s. per head. Now look at the Justice Department ? —The Justice Department of Samoa cost £2,740, which works out at Is. 4Jd. per head. In Fiji it is £7,679, which works out per head at lOfd. Take the Customs Department, taking the emoluments alone ? — The Customs Department in Samoa (emoluments) cost £2,481, which works out at Is. 2|d. per head. In Fiji it is £7,537, which works out at lOfd. per head. Take the Harbour Department compared with the Port and Marine of Fiji ? —The Harbour Department of Samoa cost £3,769, which works out at Is. 10|d. per head. In Fiji the corresponding Department cost £5,912, which works out at 10|d. per head. You went further, I think, and worked out the charges as regards the Legislature. Take the Governor and the Legislature of Fiji, and take the Administrator and Legislature of Samoa, the figures to be taken from the Administration report and the blue-book of Fiji ? —The Governor and Legislature of Fiji costs £4,658, which works out, taking a population of 170,000, at 6|d. per head. The Administrator, Legislature, and Government House of Samoa cost £4,934, which with a population of 40,000, works out at 2s. sfd. per head. We come to the expenditure and revenue. You took the totals out from the Administrator's mandate report of 1925 and from the blue-book of Fiji: What was the total expenditure of Fiji ? —The total expenditure of Fij was £478,174, which works out per head at £2 16s. 3d. In Samoa the total expenditure is £145,687, which, with a population of 40,000, works out per head at £3 12s. lOd. In Fiji the total revenue is £550,236 ; that is per head £3 4s. Bd. In Samoa the revenue is £150,038, which is per head £3 15s. What is the profit per head in Fiji ? —lt is Bs. sd. Judge MaeCormick.] What is the surplus per head in Fiji: the difference between the revenue and the expenditure is not profit ? —The surplus per head in Fiji is Bs. sd. The surplus per head in Samoa is 3s. lOd. Mr. Baxter.) That is in the same year, of course ? —Yes.

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