A.— 4b.

When did free medical' treatment come in ? —About 1923. Were there any private practitioners here before 1923 ?—Yes, one. Who was that ?—Dr. Thieme. How long was he here ? —He died here. When did he die ? —About two years after the occupation. And from that date up to the present time there have been no private practitioners in Samoa ? —No. Even though free medical services did not come in until 1923 ?—One doctor was talking about starting when free medical treatment came in. The fact remains that there were no private practitioners here for some years, although free medical treatment did not come in for some time ?■—That is so. Judge MacCormick.\ Is there free medical treatment for the Europeans ? —No, only for the Natives. Mr. Meredith.'] You have suggested that the Natives are dissatisfied. Have you considered, Mr. Williams, the question of the birth and death rates under this medical administration ? —I have seen the reports. What conclusions would you come to as the result of a study of those reports ? —The birthrate is on the increase. And the death-rate on the decrease ?—With the exception of one or two years when there were epidemics. And you knew this, then, that under this Administration the birth-rate was increasing, and, generally speaking, the death-rate was decreasing ? —Yes. Could there be a more striking testimony to the efficiency of the medical administration ?—At the time I wrote that report a large number of people were going to Pago for operations. That is not an answer to my question. You know there was an increasing birth-rate and a decreasing death-rate. Could you have a more striking testimony to the efficiency of the Medical Department ?- —No. And you knew of that when you wrote that report ?—Yes, but I was referring more to people going to Pago for operations. You made an attack here on the European nurses. Where did you get your figures from ?— I got them out of the report, I understand. You did not have the assistance of Mr. Gurr ?—No. You have stated there, " That in the year 1925-26 the number of in-patients admitted to hospital was 144, which works out at an average of sixteen patients to each nurse per year, which is certainly ridiculous." Those are your words ? —They are according to the figures from which I got out my report. What figures ? —I forget now. I think it was the estimates for that year. I see, a page in their report, page 11 of the report for 1926, with the figure 144. Is that what you got ?—Yes. Would you mind reading the next line—" Samoan in-patients, 688 " ? —We were only referring to the European patients. No, you did not ?—That was the intention. Then there is " Chinese and Melanesian in-patients, 315." So we get that the total in-patients were about 1,200 ? —I understand it only referred to the Europeans. Judge MacCormick.] You did not say so. You gave the number of in-patients admitted to hospital as 144 ? —I certainly meant Europeans. Judge MacComick: These reports seem to have been prepared in a most extraordinary manner. Mr. Meredith.] Let me read what you say : "In 1925-26 the number of in-patients admitted to hospital was 144, which works out at an average of sixteen patients to each nurse per year, which is certainly ridiculous." Did you not intend to convey that each nurse nursed sixteen patients per year ? —I was making a comparison to the number of in-patients. Look at what you said. I take it you understand English. Read that ? —I meant to convey the meaning that it was European patients. Had you not in mind that each of those ladies only nursed sixteen patients per year ?—-No, I took it to be the proportion of white nurses to white in-patients. What was wrong with only nursing sixteen persons per year if there were only sixteen Europeans ill ? —Nothing. What did you put it in for ? —There had been a,discussion in the Legislative Council about the number of European nurses. It was done to encourage more Native nurses to be trained. Do you not know that Native nurses are being trained as fast as they can be trained ? —Yes. You know that is being done ? —We wanted to encourage that object. What complaint have you got if the Samoan nurses are being trained ? —None. Then I take it if you have done an injury to the European nurses you are prepared to apologize ? — I do not consider I have done them any injury. You do not suggest that they are not doing enough work ? —No, the idea was to encourage Native nurses. Very well, Mr. Williams, that is only a small matter. But yoix made a reference to the Sanitary Inspectors, giving figures again. It does seem unfortunate, that every time you go into figures you generally go wrong. "We have two Sanitary Inspectors, one at 1500 and one at £380 per annum, whereas in Fiji they have only one at £250." Where did you get that from ?—I think that was in the previous year's estimates of Fiji. I suppose von did not overlook the fact that Fiji also has two municipalities, at Suva and Levuka, and that they also do their own drainage-work and sanitary work ?—There was only one on the estimates.

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