10—A. 4b.

A.—4b.

It was printed at the Samoa Times ?—Yes. Of course, you have seen the pamphlet, have you not I—Yes.1 —Yes. You knew what this purported to say ? —Yes. I will read you a translation, and you can tell me if you agree with the translation [reading] : " Great Fono of Western Samoa," &c. [Pamphlet put in, and marked Exhibit No. 10.] Is that a fair translation ?—Yes, I should say that it is. I wish to ask you, as a responsible member of the community, Mr. Williams, were you justified is using those expressions about the despotic and oppressive rule ? —I do not remember the passage being read. It was but briefly explained to me, and I thought that what I heard was all right. Do you think that, as a responsible member of the community, you were justified in issuing propaganda of that nature to the Samoans ? —What was that in reference to ? I will read you the passage : " The appeal of the Samoans against the cruel, oppressive, and despotic rule of the Government." Do you think that you were justified in using terras such as those to Samoans ? —I admit that the language was strong —too strong. And also this : " The distress of the Samoans because of the many cruel, oppressive, and despotic laws prohibiting some of their important Native customs." Do you agree that that is also too strong ? —Well, the Samoans were very dissatisfied with the interference with their Samoan customs. I am speaking of your being a party to issuing that language [quoting] : " The distress of the Samoans because of the many cruel, oppressive, and despotic laws prohibiting some of their important Native customs " ? —I think so. You think that that is justified ? —Yes. Words of that sort, Mr. Williams, would be prone to cause unrest, would they not ?—I do not think so. Had you considered the possibility of unrest being caused by them before you issued them \ — There was no intention to cause any unrest. Had you considered the possibility of its causing unrest ?—No ; I did not expect any unrest to be caused. You know that a certain section of the Natives have been holding meetings frequently from the time of these public meetings up to the present time ? —I do not know of any meetings at that particular time, except those held by the committee. Also from the time of your public meetings up to the present time there have been many meetings held by the Mau section of the Natives ? —By the district representatives, yes. Have you attended any of them ?—Yes. Have you spoken at them ? —Has not Mr. Westbrook attended them and spoken at them ? — I think that all the committee have spoken at them. Has Mr. Nelson attended them and addressed them ?—Yes. What other Europeans have addressed them ? —As far as I can remember, only the members of the committee. Where have these Fonos been held ? —Some of them at Tuaefu, Mr. Nelson's residence. So there have been gatherings of the Mau at Tuaefu, Mr. Nelson's residence ? —Yes. How many would there have been there ? —Various numbers ; on some occasions well over one hundred. Where have they come from—different parts ?—Yes ; from different parts of the island. Besides the Fonos that have been held at Tuaefu, where else have you addressed meetings ? — I cannot call any to mind. Have you addressed a Fono at Lepea ?—I do not think that I have ever spoken at Lepea. Have you attended one there ? —Yes. Has Mr. Nelson or any of the others spoken at Lepea ? —Yes. Have any other members of the committee spoken in Samoan ?—Only Mr. Nelson and Mr. Gurr. And when they addressed the meeting they spoke in Samoan ? —Yes. They have addressed Natives at Lepea ?-—Yes. More than once ?—Only on one occasion, I think. Besides the Fonos that have been held at Mr. Nelson's residence at Tuaefu, and the Lepea Fonos, what other Fonos have you attended ?—I think those are the only two places at which I have attended Fonos. Of course, there has been more than one at Mr. Nelson's residence ? —Yes. How many —a dozen ? —No, not that many. But several ?—Yes. When was the meeting at Lepea ? —I remember that the meeting at Lepea was on the same day as the Minister met the Citizens Committee. You had criticized the Fono of the Faipules, had you not, Mr. Williams ?—Where ? Have you criticized them ? —Not that I remember. Have you ever attended a Fono of the Faipules ? —I have not been invited. You do not, then, exactly know what happens there ?—Only on hearsay. You know Mr. Kruse ? —Which one do you mean : there are several ? I mean the man working for Mr. Nelson, and who is a relative of Mr. Nelson ?—Yes, I know him —John Kruse. He was collecting funds for the committee, was he not ? —Yes. Was he paid for so doing ?—I do not know. If he did anything, it would be through Mr. Nelson, or done voluntarily ? —Yes. Mr. Baxter.] You mentioned the names of two prominent Samoans there : were there any others at the meeting ?—Yes, there were other prominent Samoans there.

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