A.—4b.

Do you think the reports of the public meetings generally set out the reasons why you joined the movement or not ?—Yes. Did you go into it to increase your political or commercial interests ? —No. Have you increased them ? —No. To quote another extract from the Administrator's Report, " Apart from Mr. Nelson, the European section of this committee was composed of men whose only intention was apparently to increase either their political or commercial interests " : that statement is incorrect ?—-Yes. After you got into this movement, did there come a time when you wanted to leave it, or have you been satisfied to carry on to the present time ? —I have been satisfied to carry on. Then this statement is also incorrect [reading] : " I therefore warned them to cease their activities in regard to the Natives, but they unfortunately refused to do so, and subsequently found themselves forced into a position of supporting Mr. Nelson in his strenuous efforts to disturb the Natives " ?—To my belief. You know of the Samoa Guardian ? —Yes. You have an interest in it, I believe ?—Yes. Do you read Samoan ?—A little, but not much. Have you been reading the Samoan portion of the Guardian yourself ? —I have been glancing through it, but I have never had it properly translated. You are a member of the committee : do you know whether or not Mr. Nelson's traders or Natives have been given material benefits in consideration of their influencing the Natives to form committees in their villages ?—No, they have not. On the day of the Minister's interview with the committee there was a meeting at Lepea ; were you present ? —Yes. Can you say what was the nature of the speeches made at that meeting ?—The objects of the meeting were to try and get the Natives to disperse in obedience to the Minister's letter. But what was the nature of the speeches ? —The nature of the speeches was to tell the Natives to go home and to await events, because the matter would probably come up again before. Parliament and that New Zealand would give them a fair deal. There is also a statement [reading] " I anticipated that my annual malaga around the islands, commencing in July, would end the trouble ; but the demonstration of Natives organized by Mr. Nelson and his colleagues for the purpose of impressing the Minister on the day of his interview with the committee, followed by Mr. Nelson's speeches to large numbers of Natives assembled at the village of Lepea, stimulated the agitation throughout Samoa" : is that a correct statement in your opinion ?—No, certainly not. The Natives were annoyed when they found that the Minister would not give them a hearing. Immediately after the interview with the Minister there was a meeting at Lepea : were you present at that ?—Yes. Was the nature of the speeches the same as you have just told us ?—Yes. Where did you tell them what was the nature of the interview with the Minister—outside the Courthouse here or at Lepea ?—At Lepea. Why did you leave it till you got to Lepea, instead of telling them outside here ? —We could hardly do that. We thought that it was better to get the chiefs together and explain matters to them. This movement was not started by Mr. Gurr, by any chance, was it ? —No, it was not. Mr. Meredith.] You have been criticizing the Samoan Administration for many years, have you not ? —I have. I mean, starting in the German time ?—Probably I have. Because you told us yourself that you signed that German petition, did you not ?—Yes ; it was not only a British petition —there were hundreds of Germans. You were one of the leading spirits organizing that petition, were you not ? —Yes. I took an interest in public affairs then. I think you have been a frequent contributor to the press, have you not ? —I have. You have not confined your operations to the Samoan press, have you ? —I have written to the English press. Criticizing the Samoan Government ?—Yes. Over what period of years have you been doing this : twenty years ?—Probably. Do you remember writing to the president of the Overseas Club and Patriotic League about the British in Samoa ?—Yes. He did not publish the letter, did he ?—The letter was passed on to Sir James Allen, the High Commissioner. It was sent down here to the late Judge Wilson to see you about it ?■—Yes. That was in 1921 ? —Yes. The Chairman.] What month, please April, 1921. The date of Mr. Westbrook's letter was the 10th November, 1920. Mr. Meredith.] You remember the conversation with Mr. Wilson about that time ? —Yes, I do. This is Mr. Wilson's report: — Office of the Chief Judge, Apia, Samoa, 21st April, 1921. Memorandum for His Excellency the Administrator. AccobtoNG to Your Excellency's wish, I yesterday discussed with Mr. G. E. L. Westbrook his letter to Mr. J. E. Wrench, of the Overseas Club and Patriotic League, of which a copy was sent to you by the Secretary of External Affairs with his letter of 3rd March. Mr. Westbrook disclaimed any desire to misrepresent the position, and claimed that his letter was a fair criticism of the New Zealand Administration. When 1 took his statements categorically he had, of course, to admit that a number of them were quite untrue, such as the statements that all the German residents were deported; that the Government have started a store in opposition to the merchants and traders ;

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