A.—4b.

And with the exception of business trips to other countries and pleasure trips you have resided here all your lifetime ?—Yes. Have you any standing as a Samoan ?—I have a chief's name on my mother's side —" Tupua." During the sojourn in Apia have you made it a practice to take part in politics ? —No, I have not. Now we come to the question of the Mau —as to its origin and growth : do you remember the first meeting that was held in the Market Hall ?—I do. Were you there ? —I was present. Who was chairman ? —Mr. Nelson. Were all the rest of the committee present at that meeting ?—I think so. Were both races present at that meeting ? —Europeans and Samoans, yes. The Europeans include a number of half-castes ? —Yes. How were the people made aware that there would be such a meeting ? —lt was advertised in the Samoa Times by a public notice. In what language was that advertisement published ? —ln English, and the Samoan was screened at the pictures. Who was it that organized this public meeting ? The Chairman : We have heard that over and over again ; it is common knowledge. Mr. Slipper : That is so. (To witness) : Were the Natives approached in any way to attend this meeting ? —They came there at their own free will when they heard that the Minister of External Affairs was visiting Samoa, to ascertain what matters were to be put before the Minister. You speak the Samoan language very fluently I—Yes.1 —Yes. And see a great deal of the Natives ? —Yes. It is common ground that the Natives are alleged to have had grievances : do you know whether they have had any grievances or expressed any grievances prior to the calling of this meeting ?—For about two or three years. It has been alleged that the commencing of the Citizens Committee was the start of their dissatisfaction : is that correct ? —No. Did the whites do anything that you are aware of to increase the dissatisfaction that they already possessed ? —None whatever ; in fact, the whites are trying to smooth them down. Up to the time the meeting was held did you have information about the Minister ? —Mr. Nelson said at the meeting that he was in Wellington and met the Prime Minister and the Minister of External Affairs, and then it was arranged at that meeting that Mr. Nosworthy would follow in September or October. It is common ground that the committee found out that the Minister was not coming then : was that known at the first general meeting or not ? —I do not remember. At that meeting various committees were set up ?—At the first meeting. And that reports were prepared and presented at the second public meeting ? —Yes. After the first meeting they picked the six Samoan and six European members and formed sub-committees, and at the second meeting the reports were read out. And the reports were read over by the full committee prior to the second general meeting ? —lt was read between the committeemen themselves in the afternoon, and in the evening the second meeting was held. After that meeting, and from then on until the Minister's visit did the Native dissatisfaction remain as it was or increase, or did it die down, so far as you are aware and able to judge ? —lt had increased because a notice was read out that the Minister would not arrive until May. You went to New Zealand yourself, did you not ?—Yes. And you are the author of this pamphlet, entitled " Western Samoa " ? —Yes. [Pamphlet produced —Exhibit No. 12.] The Chairman [after perusal of document] : I see no objection to it being produced. Mr. Slipper.] Concerning your visit to New Zealand, why did you make it ? —I was sent by the committee from here. Is there any reason why you were sent ? —To seek counsel's advice in Auckland, and to try and get the Minister of External Affairs to consent to see the delegation and put before Parliament their grievances. Was the committee not able to go itself ?—The members were stopped —that is, passports were not allowed to be given to them by the authorities here. Judge MacCorwick.] The delegation was stopped, but not the committee ? —That is the committee. There were so-many Samoan chiefs from the committee and three from our side, and they were Messrs. Nelson, Williams, and myself to accompany them to Wellington. Mr. Baxter : It was not the whole of the committee but a portion of it. Mr. Slipper.] You went to New Zealand : did you see the Hon. the Minister of External Affairs ? —No. Did you see the Eight Hon. the Prime Minister ? —After we received a letter from the Hon. Mr. Nosworthy in answer to the first letter on our arrival, and he absolutely refused, and referred everything back to the Administrator. Where is that letter ?—I think it is on the file that Mr. Nelson has. It was handed over to the committee. Eventually you did see the Eight Hon. the Prime Minister ?—I had an interview with the Prime Minister. And what was the nature of that interview ?—I obtained no satisfaction with respect to getting psrmission for the delegation to go to Wellington. Did you get a definite refusal ? —We got a refusal by a telegram.

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