A.— 4b.

Have you attended any of them ? —Not lately. You have not attended any of them lately: what was the last one you attended ? —The last one was before Mr. Nelson left for New Zealand. Where was that held ?—At Mr. Nelson's residence. How many Mau members were there I—Quite1 —Quite a number. Some hundreds ? —Two or three hundred. And you had attended similar meetings prior to that ? —Up at Mr. Nelson's residence. Did you address any of the meetings yourself ?—No. Have you ever seen an election conducted by Samoans : I am speaking of an election in the European sense of the word —by ballot, that is, to elect an individual for any office or position by a method of ballot'! —No ; they come together and they appoint their representatives at the meeting which they hold. Have you seen a selection made by definitely counting the votes on one side and the votes on the other side and recording the selection of the majority ? —Not with Samoans. It is contrary to their customs, is it not ? —Yes. One of the officials in each village is the pulenu'u, is he not ? —Yes, he is called the Magistrate. We might term him the Mayor of the village ? —Yes, and some call the pulenu'u the Magistrate. He has certain duties to perform, has he not ?—ln his own village. It would be improper to have two pulenu'us in the one village ?-—lt is. Do you know of cases where there are two men acting as pulenu'us in the one village ? —No, I do not. It would cause trouble if there were ? —Well, it all depends. If they are related it will not cause trouble, but if they are not related there will be bound to be trouble. Have you had anything to do with the appointment of Mau pulenu'us in any of the villages ? — No. Have you heard that it has been done ? —No. You swear that you know nothing about that ? —I swear that I had nothing to do with such appointments in any village. Mr. Slipper.] Has the Mau appointed any pulenu'us ? —I have not heard of it. Have you any idea where that statement came from ?—I suppose, from the Malo people. These reports that were drawn up between the first and second meeting : what was the purpose of those reports —what were they for ? —To present the grievances of the country to the New Zealand Government through the proper channel. Speaking of the discussion that took place among the Samoans, did the Europeans join in the discussion ?—No. You said that there were quite a number of speakers ? —Yes. Did they stand up and speak ? —They stood up and spoke out. Was that in the same part of the hall as the general meeting was held ? —Yes. And the other members stood aside ? —Yes. In allowing the Samoans to join up with the Citizens Committee, counsel for the Administrator suggests that that is a dangerous thing and might create unrest: you said that there was unrest, and he said that it might make it worse ? Judge MacCormick : I took it that Mr. Meredith's statement was addressed to the leaflets that were put in. Mr. Slipper: Mr. Meredith said, referring to the matter of allowing the Natives into the meeting, that it was likely to create unrest. Judge MacCormick : I do not remember him saying that. « Mr. Meredith: I was commenting on the leaflets that were presented. Mr. Slipper.'] At any rate, what was the object of the European committee permitting the Natives to have anything to do with the committee in any way, whether by leaflet or anything else ?—They came to the meeting to give the committee their grievances to the Minister of External Affairs. It was suggested that they should have been kept away i—W could not, because it was a public meeting. You said that you did not consider it would increase the unrest: in your opinion, can you tell the Commission whether it would have upset them or not ? —They kept quiet and waited to receive the answer to their grievances. Which do you think was the better course—l am speaking to you now as a Samoan : bring their grievances forward and put them to the Minister or not ?—To get their grievances put before the Minister and get them settled. Have you a copy of the notice which you put on at your picture-theatre ?—No. Can you remember it ?—lt is only a translation of the advertisement for the public meeting that was to be held at the Market Hall. The Chairman.] Mr. Williams has told us that it was not the purpose of the Citizens Committee to advocate the removal of the present Administrator: is that so ? —Not at all, so long as he straightens things out. Is it or is it not a fact ?—lf you ask me personally and on my own behalf, I should say No. lam speaking of the Citizens Committee, of which you are a member ? —I do not know about their minds. I. am not asking you about their minds. However, we will leave it at that. Are you still associated with the Mau movement ? —I am. And I presume the Citizens Committee are also associated with the Mau movement ? —That is so,

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