A.—4b.

And that such a state of affairs was very cruel for the Samoan children ?—Yes, for some of the children. Is there not much less yaws now ? —Yes, there is less yaws to-day, because the people] have now learned how to treat the disease. And have not the Administration doctors given treatment for the yaws ? —Yes. And are not the Samoans thankful for that ? —They all wish to give thanks. But they are not prepared to pay the cost of it ? —They are now paying it, as the Samoans pay the medical tax. Do they not think that it is right that they should pay for it ? —They should, but not in the way of permanent tax, but only to pay when it was required. Do you know what hospitals and stations there are besides the Apia Hospital ?—Yes ; I know of other hospitals, and also of other dispensaries. Do you think that they are good ? —Not so good, because they cannot fix up the sick people outside —that is, in cases of serious sickness. They nearly all give some medicine just for the time being. Do you think that there can be a big hospital in every place ? —I do not think so. It would cost too much money, would it not ? —Yes. Too much money for the Samoans to pay ?—Yes, it would be too much for them to pay. Have you seen the reports issued by the European committee —I have not received any up to date. The Chairman.] You told us that you were a member of the Mau I—Yes. Were you aware that one of the purposes of the Mau is to secure certain political reforms in favour of the Samoans ?—I am aware of that. Were you told that the object of the Mau was to secure practical self-government for the Samoans ? —That is also my opinion. That is not quite an answer. Were you aware that the object of the Mau was to advocate self-government for the Samoans ?—Yes, that is a true object of the Mau. Did the Mau desire to have New Zealand removed from the government of the country I—Yes,1 —Yes, it is the wish of the Mau that Samoa should be controlled by the Samoans. The Mau desire that the Samoans should control the government of Samoa, and not New Zealand ?—That is the true desire, with the condition that Samoa should be under the protection of the British flag —to protect this country by the British flag if they were attacked by the other nations. Did you understand from the papalagi members of the Mau that these were some of the purposes of the Mau ? —That was my true opinion and also the opinion of the other Samoans. Did the papalagi members of the Mau know what was in the minds of the Samoan members of the Mau about the control by the Samoans of Samoa ? —I do not know.about that. Do you regard the members of the Citizens Committee as members of the Mau I—They1—They also have grievances as well as the Samoans. You have not yet answered my question. Do you regard the members of the Citizens Committee as members of the Mau ?—They are, but there are different grievances. Have you great confidence in the papalagi members of the Citizens Committee ?—No ; I have confidence in only myself and my own people. Do you say you have no confidence in the European members of the Citizens Committee ?—No, I have no confidence in the papalagi members of the committee. Do not the papalagi members of the committee guide the work of the Mau ? —That is the fact when the two sides join together. When the two sides join together would not the Samoan members of the Mau naturally defer to the opinion of the papalagi members ?—They have their own different inspirations. Did the Mau ever work for the removal of the present Administrator ?—No. That was not, then, an object of the Mau ? —No. Are you sure that it was not the purpose of the Mau to secure the removal of the present Administrator : Yes or No I—No.1 —No. Judge MacCormick.] Do you know any reason why the Eaipules recommended or the Administration ordered the ceasing of the ceremony of the presentation of " fine mats " ? —I do not know, because I was not there at the discussion of that matter. With regard to this medical-tax question, have you formed any idea, or has any one ever given you any idea or suggested any idea, of how much each family would be called upon to pay if your suggestion was adopted ?—No. Is not that a very important thing ? —Which amount do you mean ? The amount of the whole of the Administration medical expenses having to be borne by the families of the persons who happened to be sick ? —No, because the families would subscribe of their own free will. But supposing that they did not, where would the money come from ?—I have never heard of anything which any Samoan family could not do in all my life. They are different, then, from those in other places ?—-Yes, sir. Alipia sworn and examined. Mr. Slipper.] What is your present name ?—Siaosi. You have been banished as well, have you not ?—Yes. Is that the Banishment Order ? —Yes. [Exhibit No. 19.] What exactly is your rank ?—A very high-standing orator in the district of A'ana.

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